:: Re: [DNG] Devuan with usr merge?
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Author: Martin Steigerwald
To: dng
Subject: Re: [DNG] Devuan with usr merge?
william moss via Dng - 05.11.21, 22:49:42 CET:
> On 11/5/21 4:13 PM, Svante Signell via Dng wrote:
> > On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 18:50 +0000, Alexis PM via Dng wrote:
> >> Debian 11 Bullseye is the last Debian release that supports the
> >> non-
> >> merged-usr layout. It is therefore foreseeable that Devuan 4
> >> Chimaera
> >> will also be.
> >
> > I'm not so sure Devuan has to follow Debian with respect to merged-
> > /usr. In my opinion it is more a policy decision to make for the
> > project. It is up to discussion though though.
> > Comments/arguments/opinions are very welcomed.

> BSD and system V (AT&T/Bell Labs System Five) switched more than a
> decade ago.

Interesting information. I never checked what they do with other Unixes.

> The original intent was for a fast disk for root and less expensive
> media for all else.
> This was in the days of Lab Version 6 and 7, later system III and BSD
> 4.x. A large disk was 100 MB.
> Once large fast disks of 100GB became inexpensive commodities, the
> incentive was gone.

I know this background.

> None the less, from a personal perspective:
>     I have been using Unix since lab version 6. I have used BSD since
> 4.0, Minix, Ultrix, etc. I have no preference and would suggest that
> whatever is easiest for the maintainers/developers of Devuan should be
> adopted.

I do not have a strong preference either. However… if it is for going
usrmerge, then for me it is about doing it properly. To me it seems that
the arguments of the dpkg maintainer are quite warranted:


To me it appears that the current default was quite rushed and adopted
without discussing its consequences through to the end:

base-installer: Allow installing w/o the broken merged-usr-via-symlinks


And that is one of the main issues I have with how some Systemd
developers and supporters approach adopting their ideas – the idea for
merged-/usr for Linux was brought in by Systemd people: They use force,
if their arguments do not do the trick.

If done right, I could even go along with some of the ideas behind
Systemd… but for me Systemd still is much more a social and cultural
issue than a technical one. The path of adopting Systemd is accompanied
with unparalleled arrogance and ignorance and a lot of power struggles.
A pattern I currently see in other parts of society as well.

Freedom… especially the right to free speech… is the base for everything

>     When the people fear the government there is
>     tyranny, when the government fears the people
>     there is liberty.
> John Basil Barnhill

Very right and very appropriate to remember this in the current times.

(P.S.: I suggest moving off from Google Mail… of course it is entirely
your decision, but… Google is… in my opinion is not compatible with
above citation. Google extends what they now about us… but does not
reveal how they do what they do and what they actually do to a large