On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:41:43 +0200
Alessandro Vesely <vesely@???> wrote:

> Hi,
>

> On Sun 04/Jul/2021 21:09:01 +0200 Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 13:01:52 +0200
> > Alessandro Vesely via Dng <dng@???> wrote:  
> >> On Sat 26/Jun/2021 01:10:08 +0200 Patrick Bartek Via Dng wrote:  
> >>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 11:34:32 +0200
> >>> Alessandro Vesely via Dng <dng@???> wrote:    
> >>>> After I did a system upgrade, I couldn't mount an USB key any
> >>>> more, until I manually installed udevil.  What happened, 
> >>>> dependency changes?  

> >>>
> >>> This is one of the "gotchas" that can happen when running an "in
> >>> development" version. As far as why it happen: could be a number
> >>> of things. Most of the time, it's because a dependency, like
> >>> udevil to spacefm, become mismatched version-wise. That is,
> >>> udevil has become "too old" to work with spacefm, and the upgrade
> >>> process uninstalls it. Try "full-grade" instead of just "upgrade"
> >>> to get the newer version of the dependencies when "upgrading." In
> >>> fact, this is the recommended procedure when running an "in
> >>> development" or testing version.
> >>
> >> I tried apt-get dist-upgrade afterwards, but it didn't bring up
> >> much staff. Later on, I found that some software that I don't use
> >> very often was removed from my system. I had to install anew
> >> Inkscape and MariaDB server.
> >
> > Without knowing the particulars of how you installed Chimaera or how
> > it's configured, it's going to be difficult to diagnose your
> > problems. However, the main problem is that you are using Chimaera
> > which is still in development, and that can introduce problems.
> > Although, usually, they correct themselves when the developers do
> > the next round of "fixes."
> >
> > Did you do a clean install or upgrade from a previous version? IIRC,
> > you dist-upgraded from a Debian distro, but I've forgotten which
> > one. This can and does introduce problems even if done correctly.
>
>
> Here's the sequence of what I did: I wrote to the list each time, so
> I know the exactly when.
>
> 4 January 2020: migrate from debian/stretch to beowulf
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20200104.101800.7b0f18cb.en.html
> Beowulf was the stable version at the time. Afterwards, I upgraded
> it regularly and smoothly.

I'm assuming you didn't try to migrate from Stretch to Beowulf directly
before doing the ascii migration.

I've avoid dist-upgrades between releases unless I had no other choice.
Too many chances for problems even if everything is done correctly.
Something you have already discovered. I prefer clean installs. And I
keep detailed logs of what I do. So, when I "upgraded" from Wheezy to
Stretch to Beowulf, I knew what was and was not installed initially, and
in what sequence and when. But back to your glitches . . .

When you dist-upgraded from ascii to Beowulf -- Beowulf was still
Testing, that is, it wasn't Stable at that time, right? -- you should
have continued to use dist-upgrade with Beowulf until it became Stable,
then switch to upgrade. If you didn't, this have could cause problems.
You should be doing the same with Chimeara until it becomes Stable.

>
> 19 April 2021: upgrade from beowulf to chimaera.
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20210419.111049.2c050382.en.html
> As I wrote at the time:
>

>      Everything incredibly smooth!

>

>      I don't know why I rebooted between upgrade and dist-upgrade.
> The graphics didn't come up, so I run dist-upgrade on the tty
> terminal.  That's the only annoyance I had.

See what can happen when upgrade is used when dist-upgrade should have
been.

>      Heck, the process took an inordinate amount of time.  autoremove
> is still running for 435 packages... Isn't there a way to remove
> packages not used for more than one year?

This is normal after a dist-upgrade and autoremove. You should also
autoclean as well.

>
> 24 June 2021: apt-get update + apt-get upgrade
> https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20210625.093432.02c220e2.en.html
> I hadn't updated the system since April.
>
> Network printer and usb key access were damaged by the upgrade. I'm
> sure I used both between Apr 19 and Jun 24. For the printer, I just
> deleted and discovered it again. For spacefm, I installed udevil. I
> found no relevant differences in spacefm dependencies. I'm not sure
> whether udevil was installed before (it is suggested). Perhaps usb
> access was granted in some other way.
>
> After looking for timestamps, I don't think I used Inkscape or
> MariaDB during that period. Perhaps those packages were removed
> during the April upgrade and I only noticed after the June upgrade.

These both may be due to using upgrade instead of dist-upgrade on a
Testing version.

>
> > [snip]
>
>
> >> I remember many release changes done in two steps, apt-get upgrade
> >> followed by apt-get dist-upgrade for the rest. This time it seems
> >> that the system forgot about removed packages. Is it so because
> >> chimaera is not yet released?
> >
> > How did you remove those packages?
>
> No idea. Didn't remove them intentionally. Not even sure /when/
> they were removed.

During your migration to Beowulf and dist-upgrade to Chimaera, and if
you followed instructions, autoremove could have removed them as part
of the cleanup.

>
> > [snip]
>
>
> > Upgrade by design won't install major upgrades to apps, system
> > files, etc. which can occur with Testing.
>
> However, apt should still keep back unupgraded packages, so that if
> you issue a dist-upgrade afterwards, it can find them and upgrade
> them, correct?

It should, but if you used autoremove, those "held back" packages will
be removed and forgotten.

B