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Author: terryc
To: dng
Old-Topics: [DNG] ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
Subject: [DNG] OT? Re: ..devuan to the rescue? Easiest possible newbie email server setup, ideas?
On Sat, 19 Sep 2020 23:55:46 +0200
Arnt Karlsen <arnt@???> wrote:

> Hi,
> ..devuan to the rescue? Norwegian ISP "Get" is ditching their email
> service and pointing their clients to a paid service, which again is
> pointing them to Gmail's ad laden services, drawing due scorn. [1]

To be brief;
It isn't technically Devuan that is the solution, but Gnu/Linux.

The only thing that really made me grimace, is that you are willing
to do all this for generic 'windows' users(GWU). I see a world of hurt.

IME(in my experience) GWU tend to downoad and install programs with
unwanted add-ons which can mean you will spend a lot of time fixing the
problem and removing your domain/mail-server off blacklists.

You will have to write a lot of documentation with explicit How-To steps
for everything. You know, that stuff that has always been missing from
Unix time.

So I suggest you are going to have to process all their outgoing emails
to try an minimise this problem. No suggestions, MS boxen are not for
sending email here nd they are blocked on the fire wall.

YMMV, but IME GWU have trouble performing a simple copy and past of the
headers, which makes problem solving 'interesting'

Now to my 2c on your various points.

I've run sendmail since I first set up a domain mail service over a
dial up link.

I use zen.spamhaus.org as the only checker and a healthy sendmail access

The norm seems to be to just accept everything and process it, but
until recently, all my internet services cam with a data charge. So for
our domain, the easiest & cheapest method is just to block known
spammers and not pay data charges.

FWIW, I do not accept email by IPv6.

As to a mailer, I currently use claws as there is a "one button/right
click select) report this spam to spamcop.net. It also does all the
fetching/collecting from multiple mailboxes AND sending via my choice of

It also has a comprehensive filtering/sorting system. my only complaint
is it can be difficult to later edit the various rules, as when you
sign up for a list and use only "TO:"(very easy to do) and later want to
change it to "TO_or_CC", which has to be manually edited.

What is missing from our domain is an automated capacity for users to
add an aliases for all these lists they want to sign up to.

Summary, the technical problems are easy. It is the users that will
get you.

TL;DR response
(well actuas
> ..since we can do better, I'm thinking "Devuan Email Server Flavor"
> sort of distro to put on an old pc or a Raspberry Pi, with all email
> on local storage like I've done since the mid 1990ies. Which is
> part of my problem: While Claws Mail is neat and easy, Fetchmail
> and Procmail are _far_ from newbie friendly.
> ..expect the Get clientele to be total newbies, who may be capable of
> entering their own email account data into a web browser interface
> from their Wintendo, so our new email server flavor needs to be kept
> as stupid simple as possible to setup and use.
> ..limit it to a pop3 and imap client and an imap server with local
> storage? The big thing is control over your own email, on your own
> hardware, in your own home.
> ..me, I use Fetchmail as an imap and pop3 client to fetch my email,
> and Procmail to sprinkle it down my ~/Mail tree, and Claws Mail to
> read it, and to write and to send my outgoing email, directly out
> thru my isp's smtp servers. That's all I really need.
> ..the Get clientele will have similar needs, but will need their
> "home email server" as stupid simple as possible to setup and use.
> Easiest possible newbie email server setup, use and support, ideas?
> ..the competition:
> https://www.popsci.com/set-up-private-email-server/
> https://www.geekwire.com/2015/why-you-shouldnt-try-to-host-your-own-email/
> https://helpdeskgeek.com/how-to/how-to-set-up-your-own-email-server/
> https://www.linux.com/topic/networking/how-build-email-server-ubuntu-linux/
> https://www.pcworld.com/article/3184925/how-to-have-a-linux-home-server-on-the-cheap.html
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/how-to-run-your-own-e-mail-server-with-your-own-domain-part-1/
> https://jeffreifman.com/how-to-install-your-own-private-e-mail-server-in-the-amazon-cloud-aws/
> https://www.iredmail.org/
> https://docs.iredmail.org/why.build.your.own.mail.server.html
> ..'1: The Norw. original news story:
> https://www.tek.no/nyheter/nyhet/i/Qml8dx/get-overfoerte-kundene-sine-til-epostselskap-som-naa-vil-ha-betalt-fo?utm_source=vgfront&utm_content=row-30
> ..the above in googlish:
> Menu
> Get transferred its customers to email companies that will now have
> paid. - Reprehensible, says customer 
> Customers who previously used Getmail were transferred to Wemail this
> summer. Now Wemail requires customers to subscribe to keep their email
> address.
> Screenshot
> Stein Jarle Olsen
> and
> Niklas Plikk
> 18 SEPT 2020 13:39
> 90+
> This summer, Get (now Telia) notified customers who have used the
> email service Getmail that their email service would be discontinued
> and that they would be transferred to the external service Wemail.
> The problem? A couple of weeks later, Wemail was informed that in a
> relatively short time they would demand a subscription fee of 19
> kroner a month for customers to keep their emails.
> Wemail, which is run by the company Recurrent AS, explains on its own
> website that they are a Norwegian mail service without advertisements,
> and that they do not use data about customers for commercial purposes.
> Therefore, they are dependent on revenue from customers. Wemail
> apparently has no other customers than the previous Get customers.
> Several readers have contacted and reacted strongly to the fact that
> they now have to pay for a service that was previously included.
> "Directly reprehensible," says one. "Incredibly poor customer
> service", says another, who is also upset that Wemail gave customers
> "very short" deadlines and in practice threatened that the email
> archive would be deleted and the email address useless if you did not
> create a subscription.
> He also points out that many people use these email addresses to log
> in in many places.
> - Informed in May
> Information manager Daniel Barhom in Telia says affected customers
> were not informed until May.
> - Those who did not want to transfer the e-mail address to Wemail were
> free to close their account then - and of course they still do.
> According to our figures, there were approximately 25,000 customers
> where we had registered that there was use of the e-mail account.
> Pure TV customers at Get have not had Getmail.
> Daniel Barhom in Telia says they knew that Wemail would charge, but
> that the company takes self-criticism on the communication to
> customers.
> Telia
> The alternative was to close down the entire service, says Barhom -
> and Telia did not want that.
> - One of the many reasons for the transfer was that Wemail has the
> resources to maintain and maintain an e-mail service in a way Get
> could no longer, and it was then decided to discontinue the e-mail
> service. Get then entered into an agreement with Wemail that they
> took over e-mail accounts for customers who did not close their
> account.
> - Did you know that Wemail would demand money from Get customers when
> they were chosen as a player?
> - We were aware that Wemail would eventually charge for the service,
> but we were clear in our agreement with Wemail that our customers
> would have a longer period of time to decide whether they wanted to
> subscribe or not.
> Telia takes self-criticism
> Originally, the first payment was to take place on October 5, says
> Barhom.
> - But after feedback from customers that the information about payment
> has not been good enough, Wemail decided to move the deadline for
> subscribing to 1 December. This gives customers better time to
> choose what they want. If it is not desirable to subscribe to Wemail,
> there are a number of free e-mail services you can use, and Wemail is
> happy to assist customers in moving their account to alternative
> services.
> - At the same time, we acknowledge that the communication around
> payment has not been good enough, and we apologize and take
> self-criticism, says Barhom.
> For customers who do not subscribe by December 1, the Getmail address
> and email archive will be kept alive for 90 days. After that,
> everything will be deleted.
> However, there is a solution, at least to keep the archive: Gmail can,
> for example, import emails directly from Gmail. Wemail has created a
> separate guide (PDF) for this.
> Data
> Email
> Telia Company
> Get