On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100
Denis Roio <jaromil@???> wrote:

> At last, please, do not consider Devuan as an alternative solution
> which will survive any outcome of this vote.
>
> Because I'm sure Devuan will not survive without Debian's help.

Some time in 2015, I remember hearing the VUAs saying that Devuan would
be a modification of Debian for some time, but would eventually become
an independent distro of its own, to prevent a crisis like this one.
How far is Devuan from being its own distro?

> Devuan is much, much smaller than Debian in resources, people and
> infrastructure,

Take a look at how the Void Linux project does things. They have some
kind of software machine that cranks out rolling release updates,
despite the fact that they have very few developers or maintainers. I'm
pretty sure Devuan could provide similar automation for a version based
release.

> and despite our efforts were useful to both, the
> Debian project has done very little to help us so far.

I expected this. From my viewpoint, and others' may vary, the events of
2014 showed Debian's constitution to be defective, their decision
processes to be kangaroo courts, and for whatever reason they seem
indebted to the Redhat/FreeDesktop axis. Long run, they probably can't
be a long term partner or resource.

[snip]

> If the resolution nr.4 proposed by Ian Jackson will not pass,
> Devuan will die.

From my reading of https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 , it seems
to me that Proposal E is best, D is second best, with A 3rd best: Each
of them at least as good as what we have now. Proposal C should trigger
a separation from Debian, of course, and proposal B is worrying.

Three of the five are no worse than we have now, and one of them (E)
represents a reversal of systemd's encroachment.

I wrote to Ian Jackson earlier today describing my views on the
subject. I'm not a Debian user nor dev nor maintainer, so I think
that's the best I can do. Perhaps everybody should *nicely* write Ian:
Remember, he's our friend, and if he'd succeeded in the 2014 GR, there
would have been no need for Devuan.

SteveT

Steve Litt
November 2019 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical
Troubleshooting Second edition
http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr