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Author: Alessandro Selli
To: Bot Fap
CC: dng
Subject: Re: [DNG] simple-netaid-backend debugged.
On 08/03/19 at 16:30, Bot Fap wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019, 00:10 Alessandro Selli, <alessandroselli@???
> <mailto:alessandroselli@linux.com>> wrote:
>     On 08/03/19 at 00:50, Ralph Ronnquist via Dng wrote:
>     >
>     > It's intriguing to see you get so emotional about this.

>       My objections are technically motivated and documented.

>       Yours are neither

> You should re-read your posts. You come across as very emotional and
> with a superiority complex about another user using a tool that you
> choose not to use.

  I stated facts:

1) ifconfig and iwconfig are considered obsolete, deprecated and pending
removal by all major distributions, to the point some removed them 5
years ago and many no longer install them by default.

2) They were substituted by the commands ip and iw, that have been long
made not just available, but installed as the reference network
configuration tools by all major ditributions.

3) the old commands suffer from many limitations and are no longer been
extended to incorporate the latest (and even not so "latest") networking
features the kernel supports.

These are facts, not opinions or emotions.

> You then wrongly tell the other user that tool is deprecated when it
> very much is not, certainty in the embedded world, if not so much the
> desktop

  They are, and I provided with links to demonstrate it.  No one of
those who state the opposite managed to show anything to support their
claims to the opposite.

>     > Just the other week I opted for using ifconfig because I
>     couldn't work
>     > out the single command for confguring a tap with an IP address, and
>     > bring it up. With ip, I seemed to need 3 commands, so at that time I
>     > liked ifconfig better.

>       Your own failures at using modern tools and your personal
>     preferences
>     are not technically compelling reasons to consider outdated and
>     deprecated commands anything different than what they are.

> Choosing to use a different tool because of familiarity is not a
> failure it's a choice.

  Chosing to use a deprecated and obolete tool that lacks many feature
that have been supported by the kernel for 15+ years for no other reason
than "I'm used at using them" is stupid.

> There you go again being abusive to people for making different
> choices than you

  I have nothing to say against other people's choice.  I have a lot to
say about technical reasons those commanda are deprecated and obsolete
and no longer worked on to make them current.

>     > It's certainly not obsolete yet.

>       They surely are, and Rick and myself provided with links to document
>     this and a list of shortcomings that plague those commands.  You
>     failed
>     at documenting anything technical to prop up your personal
>     convictions.

> If over 1 billion deployments in the last 12 months is obsolete then
> you clearly have a very different definition of obsolete to the rest
> of the world. Again you are being abusive to try and force your point
> of view (not facts)

  facts are that not one of the major distributions depends on those
commands.  They are no longer required, they are still available just
for the fun of the dinosaurs who insist in using deprecated and obsolete
tools for no technical advantage.

>     >  Perhaps there is
>     > a single ip command, and perhaps I can learn it, but that still
>     wouldn't
>     > make ifconfig obsolete.

>       Again, your failure/unwillingness at learning modern tools does not
>     make them bad and does not make deprecated and obsolete commands
>     modern
>     and up to date.

>     > Though, I realise I should let you call it/them "deprecated";

>       It's not just me, it's many thousand people who do.

> Any many thousands more completely disagree with you. Stop confusing
> your opinions with facts

  Please provide with pointers to technical papers documenting that
ifconfig and iwconfig can do everything that ip and iw do.

Otherwise just shut up.

>     >  it may
>     > well be how you think of them even if I don't do that.

>       It's not just that I think they are.  They are considered to be that
>     way by an overwhelming majority of Linux developers and sysadmins.

> Not true in the slightest. Devs maybe, sysadmins absolutely not

  Sysadmins do, too.  Because they cannot do many things that their job
requires them to do with the old tools.

>     > The word is just
>     > an expression of an opinion about these programs and not an
>     attribute of
>     > them.
>     >
>     > Ralph.

>       Still nothing technical about how those commands could be considered
>     anything different than obsolete and deprecated.  You only have your
>     personal convictions to show.

> Which is exactly the same as you have.

  Again, I provided with pointers to back up my claims.  Not one of
those who insist I am wrong could.

Alessandro Selli <alessandroselli@???>
VOIP SIP: dhatarattha@???
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