richard lucassen <mailinglists@???> wrote:

> I'm very pleased to see that someone is building a libsystemdfree xorg.
> But what about security updates? And what about future versions? Who is
> going to do that? What about the robustness of Devuan? Don't get me
> wrong, I really like the Devuan project, but wouldn't it be better to
> create a "systemv.debian.org", a sub version of debian, like the
> "backports.debian.org"? If Devuan is part of the Debian project, we
> will have much more influence on what's going on. Maybe it's better to
> build an extension to Debian than to build our own infrastructure.
>
> I fear many people won't agree with me, but I think it's better to
> cooperate with Debian than to fight Debian. Debian has a nice
> infrastructure. If we will be able to build a Debian extension and not
> a Debian fork, I think we can all win. On one side we will be able to
> use Debian's infrastructure and have influence on what's going on
> there, on the other side Debian will have a nice and fully supported
> non-systemd version.

I agree with you, for so many reasons it would make more sense - as you point out, Debian already has all the infrastructure in place to support that. One of the concerns I have with Devuan is that there's a shortish window (basically until Debian Wheezy is out of support) to get a "viable"* project up and running - after which the boat has been missed for a lot of potential users*.

I would add that if there were an official systemd-free Debian subproject, then it would be easier to get package maintainers to support non-systemd versions.
At present, the attitude from some of them is "systemd is the default, if you don't install libsystemd0 then tough ****" - the ClamAV guys were "fairly intolerant" of suggestions that they could make that a soft dependency ! Though they still did a Wheezy-security update so already have two versions of the package (with and without libsystemd0 requirement.


I can see several reasons it won't/can't happen - all political !

1) Some people here are so "entrenched" in their beliefs that such "consorting with the enemy" won't be popular.
2) Some people in Debian are so entrenched that such a heretic sub-project would not be allowed.
3) It would appear that some people here are persona non-gratis on Debian mailing lists (I don't know why, I can only assume for being vocally anti-systemd), that doesn't bode well for them being accepted back.


* For a lot of people, there are PHBs to keep happy. If the PHB expects stuff to be a supported version, from a recognised distro, with proper package repositories - then the current setup where it's a mix of Debian and "some guys personal repository"** then that won't cut it.

** Apologies if I'm wrong, but that's how it looks at the moment.

It would be nice if we could avoid the corporate politics, but for most, that's not possible.