Hi Steve, hi Kevin, hi.

Steve Litt - 13.06.25, 08:56:33 CEST:
> Kevin Chadwick via Dng said on Thu, 12 Jun 2025 15:47:03 +0100
> (GMT+01:00)
>
> >12 Jun 2025 15:11:51 Marjorie Roome via Dng <dng@???>:
> >> Anyone else here have any thoughts about the implications of this?
> >
> >One more of many reasons for KDE to become most distros default.
>
> I removed every KDE executable and library from my computer 11 years
> ago for the same reason I won't touch systemd: An April Fools Joke
> archetecture.

Let the opinionated opinions roll? :)

So here is mine:

> Simplicity is an asset.

It is. This is for example why I use the predictable Runit on almost all
of my Devuan systems.

I do not care a single bit for GNOME cause I use KDE's Plasma.

You are right, it is more complex than openbox with dmenu. And not all of
it is great. There are still parts in KDE eco system that have issues.
Like Akonadi for KMail.

But I grew up with AmigaOS. It was *simple*. It's original exec.library
multitasking process scheduler was 4 KiB binary code coded in Motorola
68000 assembler as far as I read.

Yet… at least starting from AmigaOS 2.04 and later with the introduction
of Reaction based GUIs also *consistent* in its user experience. There
were other GUI tool kits like MUI.

However… there was some consistency. It was *usable*. Quite so.

And I like that. I like it that apps appear in a unique, and configurable
style. However with X11 and some simple window manager it can easily be a
mix of a ton of different appearances from quite some different decades.
Some original X based applications? Or xterm? Are you even kidding me? Or
some Tk based applications with GUI? Usability anyone? Or Imagick? Again,
are you even kidding me? It is a step back from what I had in Amiga times
regarding usability. Why would I even bother? And in case I need some of
that I can still install it. Actually I do use some of Imagick. But on
command line. That is more usable, if you ask me :)

Combined with that the sheer power of quite some of KDE applications. Many
of them from what I can see are best in class. With some it is not even
close anymore to the competition. The sheer usability and power of those
apps is what led me to stick with KDE instead of probably a leaner and
simpler desktop environment.

I am a power user. I for example also use activities in Plasma. Most users
don't.

So it is Plasma for me.

Anytime.


However also Plasma has some Systemd usage. But the difference – so far at
least – is: Except for logind all of that is optional. They still have
their own kind of service manager. And otherwise it is mostly some stuff
in its system monitor like showing programs instead of processes. It
relies on the control group grouping Systemd does.

I hope it will stay that way. In case I see myself forced to switch back
to Systemd I think I would leave and try with another DE. Maybe LXQt with
KDE apps :).

They have a somewhat active FreeBSD community, so that gives me some hope.

But even what I read from the article about stronger Systemd dependencies,
I'd guess it will create some additional motivation to provide what GNOME
uses from Systemd by other means as well. We will see about it.

It would have been so much different, if people had a kind of
standardization process for things like that. And then anyone can
implement it. But with Systemd it is:

We implement something. Then probably document (some of) that. Then you
either implement it yourself, or we don't care. And we do not even discuss
it with you if you are in the other than Systemd camp.

Not all of the ideas used in Systemd are bad. But I do not like this
arrogant attitude. For me Systemd still is much more of a social problem
than a technical one. But a technical one it is as well in some areas that
have been outlined here often enough so I am not going to repeat that.

At least Adrian who posted in GNOME blog gave hints what other than
Systemd distributions can do.

Regarding Runit we spoke about user services and Lorenzo even implemented
a first shot for it in a different branch for first testing. It will not
be in Trixie / Excalibur. But it may be in the next release after that.


But all in all: My opinion is opinionated as well. I did not try your
setup, Steve. And I do not even plan to at the moment. And you did not
look at Plasma recently, I bet. But that is okay.

For me what is important to have the freedom.

The freedom that you can use your systems *your* way. And I can use my
systems *my* way.

And that is what stronger dependencies on Systemd actually limit. They
limit freedom or at least make it harder to have that freedom.

So for freedom that GNOME news is bad news. But in my point of view GNOME
stopped being about freedom when GNOME 3 appeared.

Best,
--
Martin