Martin,
Not knowing your use case or reasoning have you looked at lineage-os?
No sys-d and based off the AOSP without any google stuff.
Lineage-os is currently at #21 using android 14.
I use it and it works very well.
73
charles


On Saturday, June 1st, 2024 at 9:00 AM, Martin Steigerwald <martin@???> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I am currently about to install PostmarketOS onto a phone.
>
> Sadly I became aware of:
>
> https://postmarketos.org/blog/2024/03/05/adding-systemd/
>
> However I understand the reasoning.
>
> More and more parts of stuff rely on some Systemd service. I have a growing
> concern that we really see embrace, extend, extinguish at work here. Even
> if it has not been planned that way it seems to work exactly like that.
> But in a sense it has been a plan to convince all distros to use Systemd
> from the beginning of Systemd development.
>
> While Plasma still works well enough with elogind on Devuan, there are
> issues as well. It seems to be hard to keep up with Systemd developments.
> Also on a server with Incus I had to add runit service dir for Incus
> manually. I am still looking forward to contribute this. But while it
> would be good to first ask Debian Incus maintainer whether they would
> accept in in their package, I'd rather avoid any possible conflict and make
> a merge request for runit-services instead.
>
> Are you tired of all this friction as well? Sometimes it seems to be
> easiest to just give in and use Systemd. But I am not really inclined to
> do that. Cause I remember the days when computing was fun – Amiga and
> AmigaOS – and simple. I remember the struggle I had with implicit policy
> in Systemd. Systemd just did things I did not agree with cause the Systemd
> developers thought they know better than me what is good for me. I have
> not forgotten all of this frustration and the arrogant replies in bug
> reports I and others brought up.
>
> How is it for you? Are you tired of this at times?
>
> I intend to make sure the PostmarketOS I install is using OpenRC, the
> standard init of Alpine Linux and see how I go from there. But in case
> something then does not work, PostmarketOS developers may in future tell
> me: Well use the Systemd version of our OS. Well it is a secondary /
> backup phone to begin with, so bugs are not that severe to my daily
> routine.
>
> What gives me hope is that there is a GUI for Systemd called sxmo from the
> suckless maintainers and they still like to stick with OpenRC:
>
> https://sxmo.org/
>
> I never have been a tiling window manager type of user so far… but maybe…
> that would be an answer?
>
> At least it seems OpenRC will be included in future versions of
> PostmarketOS. Also I do not think Alpine Linux developers will switch to
> Systemd.
>
> And then there is Void Linux using runit. It could be a source for many
> more service directories for Runit that may still be missing from Devuan.
> More and more I think about cross distro collaboration. I think I explore
> Void Linux some time in the future to see what they got. I really like to
> see how complete they got things covered. They decided for runit and just
> runit. I like to know how a Plasma 6 session feels there, whether they
> already integrated Pipewire and so on.
>
> Not surprisingly, most of the time above blog post by PostmarketOS
> developers talk about GNOME not working with a polyfill for Systemd. GNOME
> seems to be the most difficult desktop environment regarding this and also
> for other topics. Plasma is still done also for FreeBSD and there is no
> Systemd there. So Plasma developers did not yet introduce any hard Systemd
> dependency. They support starting desktop services with Systemd, but if
> Systemd user session is not around… they use traditional means to start
> desktop services.
>
> Really a reason for me not to even consider using GNOME. Also in other
> circumstances I observed similar attitudes. GNOME developers knowing what
> is best for everyone else. Last one of this installment was their icon
> theme mess-up requiring Plasma developers to apply work-arounds for make
> Plasma apps use the right icons when run on a GNOME desktop.
>
> I wonder why can people not be nice to each other and work on
> interoperability solutions that work for everyone?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Martin
>
>
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