On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 09:25:39 +0200, Martin wrote in message
<17528997.NVoXsIU3kD@merkaba>:

> How would it look like if we all just accept that some like to use
> Systemd and some do not like to use or install it? Everyone for their
> own reasons with themselves are neither inherently right or wrong.

..there is a new Debian policy on init systems brewing? Good news.

> As the sysvinit maintenance thing popped up as a discussion in Debian
> I see the wonderful opportunity to work together. KatolaZ kindly
> offered to help with maintaining sysvinit, Ian Jackson already
> offered to upload changes of Debian sysvinit package, there is a
> debian-init-diversity mailing list, focusing on discussing this work.

..yay!!! Any chance there will be an official Debian list?
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/debian-init-diversity
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/debian-init-diversity/2018-October/thread.html


..seeing [ Debian's ] "d-i always starts with systemd so every new
install will need to switch from systemd!)" in: ...
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/debian-init-diversity/2018-October/000022.html

...have any of you Debian guys tried to install or rescue a Debian box
from a Devuan d-i installer?
AFAIUI, that would mean switching TO systemd, FROM s6, runit, sysv-init
or whatever we run in Devuan's d-i.
Which might help in those odd cases where Debian's d-i fails.


> And while there are some people… both in Devuan and Debian who seem
> to enjoy recreating the past with all the suffering again, there are
> also people who just go for:

..aye, we have those haters here too. Over at Groklaw.net a lot of us
came in "al Qaida is fake, who else is out there?"-style and wound up
enjoying teasing new litigation test balloon stunts out of our beloved
11 year US$ 4Bill Oshkoshy litigants, if you can imagine a lawsuit feel
like an 11 year US$ 4Bill air show. Quite an healing process. :o)

> What can we do now to improve the situation for everyone? What can we
> do if we let go of the drama and focus on what is here *now*?

..you Debian guys will do the from-systemd parts since you know them
better?

..starting with a way to read the binary systemd log files on machines
not running systemd, will help convince people like myself you mean
business on Debian people wanting init system diversity.

> The past is gone. It is over. It is just a memory. It by itself does
> not exist.

..for some of us, this past(?) Debian systemd etc policy from the
banana republic coup style policy change, had expensive consequences,
which remain as a rather useless daily reminder.


> Now there is the opportunity for a first light form of cooperation
> between Debian and Devuan and to learn to co-exist in peace with each
> other. To channel all the energy – a huge lot, if you ask me – spent
> to fight against each other to get some work done that will benefit
> both Devuan and Debian.
>
> What happens if we let go of the drama and get on with life again?

..we will find out, one way or another.

--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.