On 06/20/2017 12:04 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 09:12:39 -0500
> Nate Bargmann <n0nb@???> wrote:
>
>> GNOME3 developers seem to have a philosophy unlike that of any other
>> group of developers in the Linux/FOSS ecosystem. The first clue I had
>> was watching Linux conference videos and some
>> GNOME/Freedesktop.org/Red Hat developer would open a Macbook and then
>> proceed to start a VM to show all the wonderful things they were
>> making for "Linux". My immediate question was, if it's so wonderful,
>> why aren't you using it?
>>
>> Then there is the abomination GTK3 has become. I guess this makes
>> sense in light that GNOME developers are maintaining it and seem to
>> have hinted that its use should be exclusively for GNOME. Fine.
>> Unfortunately, many projects that were based on GTK2 now face either
>> moving to GTK3 and its poor UI or moving to another toolkit or simply
>> ending development. The update of Firefox from 45 esr to 52 esr shows
>> just what a backwards leap GTK3 is. Suddenly dragging a small icon to
>> another tab results in the icon appearing about 10X normal size. This
>> is happening in Devuan and Salix so it's not a distribution or
>> installation specific issue.
>>
>> A few years ago I took over maintenance of a handy application of
>> interest to radio amateurs. It had been dropped from Debian due to a
>> compile failure with a newer version of GTK2. The fix was fairly
>> trivial even for a GTK novice such as myself and the app is in Jessie.
>> For how long, I don't know as GTK2 will undoubtedly be deprecated in
>> some future release which leaves me wondering which way to go as I
>> don't think GTK3 is a worthwhile path to follow.
>>
>> As I see it, GNOME/Freedesktop.org/Red Hat/etc. are moving toward an
>> Android model where everything else is all but officially excluded
>> except for apps written specifically for their environment. There is
>> nothing "universal" about their plans and for Debian to chase their
>> taillights means that Debian should drop "universal" from any
>> description of their distribution, IMHO. I think it would be wise for
>> Devuan not to expend any resources also chasing the GNOME, etc. cabal
>> and let them go their way. For those who want Devuan with GNOME,
>> point them to Debian and bid them a good day. Other distributions
>> are doing just fine without SD/GNOME. I think we can as well.
>>
>> - Nate
> Somebody had to say it. Opensourcily incorrect, but the stone truth,
> and Nate, you said it well.

I agree with you both, gnome 3 is crap. GTK3 I know little of, but,
Gnome 3 just is confusing and seems like something windows would do...

The only thing that is related to gnome that I use, is mate. which is
based off of gnome 2.

I also agree wasting resources on making gnome 3 usable in devuan is a
pointless waste of time and yes they should remove the universal part of
debian.

I also think that sometimes simpler = better. Hence why the below are my
favorite desktop environments.

Personally, I like the following desktops in this order: MATE/XFCE LXDE,
LXQT (this may change eventually)
and that is really about it.

KDE, Cinnamon, and gnome 3 are just use too many resources and for what?
Shiny eye candy and other pointless crap? Thus that is why I dislike kde
and gnome 3 variants.

Although, coming from me, a person who used to know nothing about systemd...

My main complaint is that it is slower. When I tried debian vs devuan.

But much more disturbing, is, that Luke the eoma68-a20 libre laptop
creator, told me it is insecure and less stable.

All this together makes me think, yes devuan is the way to go. Not
debian which by the way, might as well change its name due to them no
longer following ian murdocks philosophy.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> June 2017 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
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