I don't know specifically about Devuan porting to to the iPhone, but it
would be marvelous if some sort of Linux could be ported to that hardware.
My main gripe with closed OS devices like Apple productions is that
eventually, regardless of the quality of the hardware, the company
withdraws OS support and updates. I have a 10 year old MacBook Pro which
still functions just fine, but soon after Jobs passed Apple withdrew all OS
support - security patches and other updates. I wiped out OSX and
installed LinuxMint on it, and with a few tweaks like fan cooling software,
everything works just fine. I'm guessing I'll get at least another couple
of years of use on it. Apple will follow similar patterns with iOS
devices, forcing purchase of new hardware every 3 years or so. Put a slim
version of Linux on a 3 year old iPhone/iPad and voila, another few years
of use. Now if they'd just revive replaceable batteries .... Anyway, I'm a
lurker on this list and wish you the best in pursuing what might just prove
to be a fine Linux fork. I just hope internal fighting can be minimized.
Cheers!
On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 4:14 PM, <dng-request@???> wrote:
> Send Dng mailing list submissions to
> dng@???
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Franco Lanza)
> 2. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Anto)
> 3. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Anto)
> 4. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Steve Litt)
> 5. Re: straw poll, non-free firmware for installers (Apollia)
> 6. Pie in the sky: Devuan on nonfree phones and tablets
> (Hendrik Boom)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 21:26:42 +0200
> From: Franco Lanza <nextime@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers
> Message-ID: <20150604192642.GA29616@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I think we can draw a line in this discussion this way:
>
> Daniel will implement the installer in the way he was saying,
> adding non-free firmwares limited to the ones that if missed are
> blocking for the installer ( so, nothing more than few firmwares for
> things like network cards or wifi, for example ), with the choice for
> the user to select them but disabled by default, and making the user
> knowing that he is selecting a non-free firmware.
>
> This will be our default installer.
>
> When our infrastructure will use that installer to build the iso images,
> a script will also build another image with all those non-free firmware
> removed, and this will be our "free" image.
>
> Both will be marked as "official", and the name of the generated isos
> will be something like devuan-jessie-...-full.iso and
> devuan-jessie-...-free.iso
>
> This way i hope we will make all happy.
>
>
> --
>
> Franco (nextime) Lanza
> Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy
> SIP://casa@???
> web: http://www.nexlab.net
>
> NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
> you can download my public key at:
> http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
> Key ID = D6132D50
> Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
> -----------------------------------
> echo
> 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq
> | dc
> -----------------------------------
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/dng/attachments/20150604/072f1a55/attachment.sig
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:31:29 +0200
> From: Anto <aryanto@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers
> Message-ID: <5570A791.9000607@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On 04/06/15 20:51, Steve Litt wrote:
> >
> > .
> > <snip>
> > .
> >
> > Imagine the difference...
> >
> > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and
> > bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and better
> > made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells you your
> > network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the documentation
> > *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked you through
> > exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different computer to put it
> > on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, and the install goes
> > perfectly. Devuan was every bit as good as you thought.
> >
> > Bottom line: Be on the same team as reasonable users.
> >
> > SteveT
> >
> > Steve Litt
> > June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> > http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
> >
>
> Hello Steve,
>
> According to the approach that Daniel suggested as I understood it, the
> story is a bit different...
>
> You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and
> bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and better
> made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells you your
> network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the documentation
> *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked you through
> exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different computer to put it on
> the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, The installer gives you the
> option to choose the firmware from the available list or abort the
> installation. As you trust the firmware, you select it. If that would be
> proprietary firmware, you will be given a license agreement to accept or
> reject it (to abort the installation). After you read (assuming you have
> time) and accept the license agreement, the install goes perfectly.
> Devuan was every bit as good as you thought.
>
> I am not sure thought if the installer would really do that. Especially
> on the proprietary part, that looks exactly the same as what Windows
> does (at work, I don't have any other choice rather than using Windows).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anto
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:35:13 +0200
> From: Anto <aryanto@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers
> Message-ID: <5570A871.6060701@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On 04/06/15 21:31, Anto wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 04/06/15 20:51, Steve Litt wrote:
> >>
> >> .
> >> <snip>
> >> .
> >>
> >> Imagine the difference...
> >>
> >> You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and
> >> bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and better
> >> made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells you your
> >> network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the documentation
> >> *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked you through
> >> exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different computer to put it
> >> on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, and the install goes
> >> perfectly. Devuan was every bit as good as you thought.
> >>
> >> Bottom line: Be on the same team as reasonable users.
> >>
> >> SteveT
> >>
> >> Steve Litt
> >> June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> >> http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
> >>
> >
> > Hello Steve,
> >
> > According to the approach that Daniel suggested as I understood it,
> > the story is a bit different...
> >
> > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot and
> > bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and
> > better made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells
> > you your network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the
> > documentation *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked
> > you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different
> > computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, The
> > installer gives you the option to choose the firmware from the
> > available list or abort the installation. As you trust the firmware,
> > you select it. If that would be proprietary firmware, you will be
> > given a license agreement to accept or reject it (to abort the
> > installation). After you read (assuming you have time) and accept the
> > license agreement, the install goes perfectly. Devuan was every bit as
> > good as you thought.
> >
> > I am not sure thought if the installer would really do that.
> > Especially on the proprietary part, that looks exactly the same as
> > what Windows does (at work, I don't have any other choice rather than
> > using Windows).
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Anto
> >
>
> Off topic.
>
> I am not sure why my Thunderbird does not strike-through this sentence:
> *Fortunately for you, the documentation *screamed* that you might need
> nonfree firmware, walked you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you
> use a different computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try
> again,*. So my email looks strange.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 15:38:00 -0400
> From: Steve Litt <slitt@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers
> Message-ID: <20150604153800.77307ff9@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:31:29 +0200
> Anto <aryanto@???> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 04/06/15 20:51, Steve Litt wrote:
> > >
> > > .
> > > <snip>
> > > .
> > >
> > > Imagine the difference...
> > >
> > > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot
> > > and bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler
> > > and better made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it
> > > tells you your network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you,
> > > the documentation *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware,
> > > walked you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a
> > > different computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try
> > > again, and the install goes perfectly. Devuan was every bit as good
> > > as you thought.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: Be on the same team as reasonable users.
> > >
> > > SteveT
> > >
> > > Steve Litt
> > > June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> > > http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
> > >
> >
> > Hello Steve,
> >
> > According to the approach that Daniel suggested as I understood it,
> > the story is a bit different...
> >
> > You come home from Costco clutching your brand new laptop, all hot
> > and bothered to install Devuan because you've heard it's simpler and
> > better made than the others. You boot your Devuan DVD, and it tells
> > you your network card needs a firmware. Fortunately for you, the
> > documentation *screamed* that you might need nonfree firmware, walked
> > you through exactly how to thumb-drive it, you use a different
> > computer to put it on the thumb drive, stick it in, try again, The
> > installer gives you the option to choose the firmware from the
> > available list or abort the installation. As you trust the firmware,
> > you select it. If that would be proprietary firmware, you will be
> > given a license agreement to accept or reject it (to abort the
> > installation). After you read (assuming you have time) and accept the
> > license agreement, the install goes perfectly. Devuan was every bit
> > as good as you thought.
> >
> > I am not sure thought if the installer would really do that.
> > Especially on the proprietary part, that looks exactly the same as
> > what Windows does (at work, I don't have any other choice rather than
> > using Windows).
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Anto
>
> Yes.
>
> The proprietary firmware you choose will look the same as Windows. One
> tiny part of your $450 laptop will be nonfree, as opposed to the entire
> OS. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
>
> It would be cool if the list you mentioned could tell whether each
> firmware was free or not, so you could use that as part of your
> decision.
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/key
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 16:20:33 -0400
> From: Apollia <apollia112@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] straw poll, non-free firmware for installers
> Message-ID:
> <
> CABU-1G-R4SiO0VihkTtkh1Mh9rmVtiWhDOJhTvU1E8XNsJQyEg@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 3:26 PM, Franco Lanza <nextime@???> wrote:
>
> > I think we can draw a line in this discussion this way:
> >
> > Daniel will implement the installer in the way he was saying,
> > adding non-free firmwares limited to the ones that if missed are
> > blocking for the installer ( so, nothing more than few firmwares for
> > things like network cards or wifi, for example ), with the choice for
> > the user to select them but disabled by default, and making the user
> > knowing that he is selecting a non-free firmware.
> >
> > This will be our default installer.
> >
> > When our infrastructure will use that installer to build the iso images,
> > a script will also build another image with all those non-free firmware
> > removed, and this will be our "free" image.
> >
> > Both will be marked as "official", and the name of the generated isos
> > will be something like devuan-jessie-...-full.iso and
> > devuan-jessie-...-free.iso
> >
> > This way i hope we will make all happy.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Franco (nextime) Lanza
> > Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy
> > SIP://casa@???
> > web: http://www.nexlab.net
> >
> > NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
> > you can download my public key at:
> > http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
> > Key ID = D6132D50
> > Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
> > -----------------------------------
> > echo
> >
> 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq
> > | dc
> > -----------------------------------
> >
>
> Sounds good to me!
>
> The only thing I'd change is the names of the ISOs, since "full" vs. "free"
> might imply to some people that the "free" version is incomplete and
> inferior to the "full" version.
>
> I would prefer to imply that the non-libre version is the flawed inferior
> version.
>
> So, maybe names like:
>
> devuan-jessie-...-nonfree-nonlibre.iso
> and
> devuan-jessie-...-freelibre.iso
>
>
> I definitely agree with having both versions, even though I try to avoid
> anything non-libre.
>
> I would love to switch to purely libre hardware if I had the money, but, I
> don't, and most people in the world might not either, judging by this page:
> http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats
>
> So, I definitely think it's best for Devuan to be installable on as wide a
> variety of hardware as possible.
>
>
> I would find it particularly amusing if it were possible to install Devuan
> on an iPhone. :-) Or anything else the average person wouldn't expect
> Linux to work on.
>
> Someone gave me an iPhone 4S a few years ago in the hope that I would use
> it to make a living writing proprietary software. Since I wasn't willing
> to do that, it's not much use to me, so, maybe I'll experiment with trying
> to get Devuan to work on it someday. :-) (Unless I hear that it's totally
> unfeasible.)
>
> Probably just a daydream, at least for now, because I have so many other
> things I need to get done at the moment, and also because it's very likely
> beyond my current skills. I haven't yet even attempted to build _any_
> Linux from scratch yet, though I still intend to someday.
>
> Best wishes,
> Apollia
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/dng/attachments/20150604/cb552acb/attachment.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 17:14:04 -0400
> From: Hendrik Boom <hendrik@???>
> To: dng@???
> Subject: [Dng] Pie in the sky: Devuan on nonfree phones and tablets
> Message-ID: <20150604211404.GA14998@???>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Thu, Jun 04, 2015 at 04:20:33PM -0400, Apollia wrote:
> >
> > I would find it particularly amusing if it were possible to install
> Devuan
> > on an iPhone. :-) Or anything else the average person wouldn't expect
> > Linux to work on.
> >
> > Someone gave me an iPhone 4S a few years ago in the hope that I would use
> > it to make a living writing proprietary software. Since I wasn't willing
> > to do that, it's not much use to me, so, maybe I'll experiment with
> trying
> > to get Devuan to work on it someday. :-) (Unless I hear that it's
> totally
> > unfeasible.)
>
> I would *love* to replace Android with Devuan on my ASUS Transformer
> tablet, initially as dual-boot until I manage to migrate completely.
>
> Pie in the sky, for now.
>
> -- hendrik
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@???
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Dng Digest, Vol 9, Issue 21
> **********************************
>
--
Move from rim to hub; know the wheel. - G. Buddha
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Re: [Dng] Dng Digest, Vol 9, Issue …
