On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 11:24:54 +0200
> Joerg Reisenweber <reisenweber@???> wrote:
>
>
>> Please by all means avoid "friendly fire" towards shots you hear in
>> front of you - it's not the enemy, it's just your peers, we're all
>> looking (and fighting) same direction.
>>
>> BR
>> /j
>
> Joerg,
>
> When the organization has made a foundational policy decision, so they
> can move forward and implement that policy, yet somebody keeps trying
> to open up that policy to further debate, is that somebody's fire
> really friendly? Are they looking and fighting in the same direction,
> or are they deliberately retarding progress in that direction?
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/28

I can't remember the exact quote, but I think there's some quote I
heard somewhere about why enemies aren't necessarily a bad thing to
have. Basically something like, you'll discover your weaknesses
sooner by observing what your enemies try to exploit, and thus you
might learn more from your enemies than from listening to nothing but
praise and often overly soft and gentle criticism from allies.

So, I think perhaps even someone with bad intentions (though I haven't
yet noticed anyone who seems to me to have bad intentions) could maybe
inadvertently help us.


Also, I think it might be good to talk about systemd's good points so
we can get ideas on how to better undermine systemd by providing
superior alternatives to everything worthwhile that systemd does well
(if there is anything).

If systemd's good points are implemented in freedom-respecting
alternatives, people will have less reason to accept the drawbacks of
systemd, including the erosion of freedom resulting from systemd
engulfing way too many important functions of Linux, which (if I
understand correctly) has been leading other software to make itself
overly dependent on systemd.

Discussing systemd's good points in depth could help us zero in on
lots of new ideas for alternatives that we could create (or promote,
if good alternatives already exist).


If systemd didn't have any good points at all, (hopefully) no one would use it.

And, as someone on a blog I read said about the good points of
something other than systemd: "That's called bait. Now find the hook."

(Quote source: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/gtk-fesses-up-this-aint-for-you-qt-takes-over-the-world/
)

We've definitely already found many hooks, but, I think we might
benefit by studying the systemd bait as well. :-)


Carrying the bait/hook analogy a bit further:

It looks to me like one of the goals of Devuan might be to make it so
we "fish" (Linux users) can all have tasty morsels to eat that will
taste just as good or better than the systemd "bait" (the good parts
of systemd) - with the most important and beneficial difference being
that our tasty morsels will be free of dangerous hidden hooks (or in
other words, anything like the bad parts of systemd, or anything else
which is anti-freedom).

We fish have the right to tasty food that doesn't contain hooks. :-)


Unfortunately, not all fish even acknowledge the existence of hooks.
In fact, some fish quite harshly deny the existence of hooks, and
prefer to believe that the fish who are aware of the hooks and want to
save other fish from the hooks are just "trolls" instead of
well-intentioned fellow fish who are making a valid point.

For many of the naive fish, perhaps believing in hooks is just too
scary, and having to search for (or cultivate) hook-free food seems
like too much nuisance.

But, fortunately, providing the tastiest food possible will enable us
to rescue even the fish who are oblivious to hooks and only care about
whether something tastes good or not, and whether it's ready to eat
right now.

With their hunger satisfied by our not only tasty but nutritious food,
even the most naive fish won't be so tempted by bait on a hook
anymore. :-)


By the way, I don't have a clear technical understanding of systemd,
so, my ideas about systemd are just the impressions I got after
reading others' opinions on systemd. (I just don't want anyone to
mistakenly think I have a well-informed technical opinion.)

Also, this picture influenced me a lot. :-)

http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/112502661235/watching-systemd-evolve


This post is amusing too, but, I'm not sure if it's as educational:

http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/97126865868/systemd


Anyway, all feedback/criticism/comments/corrections/etc. are welcome. :-)

Best wishes,
Apollia