* On 2015 17 Feb 16:48 -0600, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 16:41:12 -0500
> Neo Futur <dng@???> wrote:
>
> > > Nate, could you please summarize Luke's question? I haven't been
> > > able to completely read any of his posts.
> > its more than just a question, but you probably want :
> >
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00695.html
>
> The preceding link covers as much territory as the Roman Empire. Nate
> asked the following:
>
> =================================================
> And yet I find it telling that none has so far answered Luke's question
> as to why they are not bothered about the recent changes and direction
> as he is. Was it bad for me to presume that no one would answer?
> =================================================
>
> So I ask *which* recent changes and direction? Systemd?

That is what Luke is referring to AIUI. Here is the relevant portion of
his post which, although long, I found to be good reading:

-------------------8<--------------------

so, marco, you wrote:

> Again, you clearly do not understand well how systemd works.

marco: understanding or otherwise how systemd works is not the point:
the point is that there has been a unilateral decision across
virtually every single GNU/Linux distro to abandon and remove *any*
alternative to having libsystemd0 installed. historical precedent in
the software industry and beyond tells us that placing so much power
and trust in a single system and a single group should be ringing
alarm bells so loudly in your head that you should wake up deaf after
having first passed out with dizziness! :)

so could i ask you, as i really genuinely don't understand, why is it
that the lack of choice here *doesn't* bother you? i'm not asking for
a technical review or a technically-based argument as to "why
libsystemd0 is better" - that has been debated many many times and is
entirely moot. i'm asking "why does *only* having libsystemd0 as the
sole exclusive startup method, removal of which prevents and prohibits
the use of a whopping FIFTEEN PERCENT of the available debian software
base, and where that exclusive exclusionary process is being rapidly
duplicated across virtually every single GNU/Linux distribution that
we know; why does that *not* make you pause for thought that there
might be something desperately and very badly wrong?"


----------------->8-------------------------------


The question at the end of the quoted text will likely not be answered,
at least in public, although there is a recent post which amounts to,
"We like it this way". So be it.

Okay, enough OT stuff. Luke et. al. are contributing to our knowledge
base. I am feeling out paths of freeing at least my main desktop since,
as demonstrated by the Valentine's ISO, Xfce and Lightdm become rather
neutered by the simple removal of systemd as init even though systemd
and systemd-shim are installed. I also see the same error when trying
to mount the CDROM image as I did on this desktop last year when I opted
for systemd-shim instead of the full systemd--"Failed to mount "CDROM";
Not authorized to perform operation".

- Nate

--

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possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

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