"There is no shame in not being the distro for everyone. That is the
freedom of Linux, you can chose which distro suits you best. There is
nothing wrong with the idea that if you want systemd, Debian is your
choice, not Devuan. By not supporting systemd at all, we are not
limiting anyone's freedom, there are many other distros that he/she
can run."

+1 Debian will be systemd only soon enough (practically)
Devuan can be what debian isn't (but used to be): all the rest of the inits:
That's debians sysV init (which has done parallel boot for 2 releases
prior to jessie)
openrc, runit, etc. All the unix-respecting drop ins that you can
allready install in debian.

Maybe Devuan will even remove the requirement to run dbus for everything too?
(In the fullness of time?)
(In an old install I could run KB3 graphical CD burner before dbus ever existed,
now I have to start up DBUS in wheezy to burn a CD, then shut it down
after as I don't like having daemons just waiting to be exploited
running on my system when not needed)

One cannot be both unix and windows and macos9 at the same time.
One needs to choose.
This is a bifurcation point. The new guard is rocketing away from the
what the old
guard created over 20 years. I hope Devuan takes what the old guard made and
protects it. There's no way around a gradual fork of much of userspace, as more
and more add systemd or dbus or whatever new thing dependencies. As they
fall away from us, the last good version should be shepherded to a
more familliar
pasture.

Anyway that's my 2 cents. I've forked 2 opensource projects when they started
ripping things out and making needless changes. It's just what needs to be done.
(Then I added lots of my own media additions, maps, code, features, always
on the same stable base however). (Also have started various projects from
scratch, and contributed various other things to opensource)

No more being led by the nose I hope.







On 12/1/14, Isaac Dunham <ibid.ag@???> wrote:
> Just to illustrate how tied into systemd things are:
> I just noticed that bsdutils (Essential: yes) pre-depends on libsystemd;
> this is for the sake of logger.
> To get rid of libsystemd, you need to rebuild logger without that--but
> that might well screw up the systemd journal for those who use systemd...
>
> Right now, Devuan is more-or-less an extra repo that hasn't really gotten
> started and configuration to not install systemd.
> Right now, "enabling systemd" with Devuan consists of deleting that
> configuration, thereby reverting to Debian.
> I don't think it makes sense to talk about "supporting systemd in Devuan"
> as even an option until Devuan provides something besides a way to not
> pulll in systemd dependencies.
>
> When/if we do get there, using systemd as much more than an expensive
> alternative to sysvinit that bundles its own implementions of several
> services would require reversing that, thereby defeating half the
> purpose.
> So I'd think that the only sensible approach to supporting systemd
> on Devuan is running a hybrid that uses Devuan and Debian repos,
> with apt-pinning to make the integration as tight or loose as desired.
>
> Thanks,
> Isaac Dunham
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