Congratulations on the croudfunding success, no doubt that the goal will be
reached. And more important than the congratulations, THANK YOU, for the
lucid thinking. Making Bitcoin un-cooptable is fundamental.
I agree that confrontation with the foundation is pointless. Jerry Britto
makes a good argument about this:
"As long as Bitcoin remains open and decentralized, cypherpunks and
entrepreneurs are not working at cross purposes, no matter how suspicious
they may be of each other. The real regulatory threats to Bitcoin are the
bonkers bananas proposals to centralize Bitcoin like we saw in the recent
WIRED article. Luckily, that article misses the point of not just Bitcoin,
but of this moment in history. Decentralization is what makes Bitcoin
genius, it’s what attracts both the radicals and the entrepreneurs, and
it’s not going away."
http://techliberation.com/2013/10/31/bitcoin-is-going-mainstream-here-is-why-cypherpunks-shouldnt-worry/#.UnMfP6kyc2U.twitter
However, two thoughts about the comparisons with you and "Circle". It is
like comparing the Transformers movie with Reservoir Dogs, in terms of
quality and budget. Second thought: hard to believe Bitcoin Foundation
thinks 9 million in VC legitimises anything per se. I mean it's the BITCOIN
foundation, for crying out loud! How much VC capital did Satoshi need to
create Bitcoin itself? lol
Still, whatever. No fighting. Only code matters.
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Jason King <
beinghomelessisnotacrime@???> wrote:
> I think the message is loud and clear. And I completely agree with the
> message. My point was the people who believe in that message don't need to
> be marketed to.
>
> And if Dark Wallet is just for Cypherpunks and Anarchists then it is
> hitting the middle of the bullseye. I just feel that's selling the project
> short as it has so much that is necessary for everyone.
> On Nov 1, 2013 10:30 AM, "jamileh s.t." <xiaziyna@???> wrote:
>
>> i mean to emphasize that the message is the most important part, and is
>> as was stated
>>
>>
>> On 1 November 2013 15:20, Jason King <beinghomelessisnotacrime@???>wrote:
>>
>>> Cool, that is exactly the message that was broadcast.
>>> On Nov 1, 2013 10:14 AM, "jamileh s.t." <xiaziyna@???> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i don't think the presentation of ideas or political ideals was at all
>>>> extreme. its far more important that the cypherpunks have strong wires
>>>> between themselves. people should really be funding is those ideals, the
>>>> software is just computational crutches for implementation of ideals.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1 November 2013 15:00, Elizabeth Ploshay <
>>>> elizabeth@???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jason and Vitalik,
>>>>>
>>>>> Great points there. I definitely appreciate this project and there is
>>>>> much the Foundation must learn.
>>>>>
>>>>> I look forward to working with Vitalik to do a BM article.
>>>>>
>>>>> Additionally, keep up the good work on the foundation forum. IMO the
>>>>> goal should be to continue to spread the truth before burning bridges.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Elizabeth
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 1, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Vitalik Buterin <vbuterin@???>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you Jason, very solid argument. I'm not in favor of burning
>>>>> bridges myself; there are many great people in the foundation (eg.
>>>>> Elizabeth for one, and even Jon Matonis has publicly written articles
>>>>> praising System D on numerous occasions), and we should work with them to
>>>>> make the foundation better. I looked at the Dark Wallet thread inside the
>>>>> foundation forums, and many people are excited about it. There is
>>>>> absolutely no reason why we need to reject potential friends.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will consider writing an article myself over the next few days or
>>>>> weeks, unless someone else wishes to take this responsibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/01/2013 10:37 AM, Jason King wrote:
>>>>> > To The Crew,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I don't get near enough time to add to the conversation here. That's
>>>>> too bad, I am so in awe of the work that is being done here and would love
>>>>> to contribute more.
>>>>> > I first want to congratulate everyone on the indiegogo campaign. The
>>>>> initial showing for the fundraiser is quite impressive. I have no doubt you
>>>>> will exceed your financial goals on this. I donated.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But I can't help but feel you are sacrificing a much larger
>>>>> community impact by not having a more plain words description of the
>>>>> benefits of dark wallet. The video is beautiful, well constructed, and
>>>>> moving. It does exactly what it was intended to do. I was moved, I agree
>>>>> with it's message...I am also /already on this mailing list. /
>>>>> > /
>>>>> > /
>>>>> > The indiegogo campaign has 133 contributors, that is not a
>>>>> battalion, much less an army. And my feeling is that if the contributor
>>>>> list was public I would already be familiar with most of the names on the
>>>>> list. People that are already, publicly, aligned with the goals stated by
>>>>> this campaign. Dark Wallet and the other ideals championed by this group
>>>>> are important and necessary to EVERYBODY. Even the people that don't know
>>>>> it yet. And the marketing campaign, in it's current form, is not digestible
>>>>> to a large part of the community.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Maybe that's the plan. Maybe you are trying to weed out certain
>>>>> classes. But that, seems at odds with the ideals expressed here.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I'm not saying to stop what you are doing, at all. I'm saying I
>>>>> think there is a great force multiplier to be had by having an additional,
>>>>> stripped down version of the message that focuses on just the technical
>>>>> benefits of the platform as it is being proposed. The benefits are obvious.
>>>>> They do not need political overtone, fear, or anarchist galvanization to
>>>>> stand on their own merits.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Why wouldn't you want trustless mixing?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Why wouldn't you want to have alternative full wallet
>>>>> implementations free of qt and bitcoind?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Why wouldn't you want a more distributed group of developers working
>>>>> on Bitcoin?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Isn't the whole point of Bitcoin to do away with single point of
>>>>> failure?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > These ideas are powerful, very powerful. The work you are doing IS
>>>>> THE REVOLUTION. The revolution does not need a trumpeter next to it saying,
>>>>> YO DAWG THIS IS THE REVOLUTION.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I propose, sometime in the next few weeks, before the campaign ends,
>>>>> you run a piece entitled "Shedding Light on Dark Wallet" that just explains
>>>>> all the benefits that Dark Wallet can offer, in very plain terms. Just a
>>>>> clean, well put together, article or video that explains the offering you
>>>>> are building. Completely free of any other ancillary benefit or protection
>>>>> this technology may offer. I think you will be shocked at how well
>>>>> something like that will be received.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > When you have been breathing smog, oxygen needs no hype man.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > And you say you need work, not ideas. If you guys are interested in
>>>>> putting something like that together, I would be privileged to help create
>>>>> it and promote it. And I think it will probably shake a few more talented
>>>>> workers out of the woodwork.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > At the end of the day, do we want...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > To say fuck the US? Or to build the tools that will protect everyone
>>>>> from their grasp?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > To say fuck the Bitcoin Foundation? Or use them as a speed bump to
>>>>> dance with regulators, while we build the infrastructure that makes the
>>>>> regulators and the foundation irrelevant?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > To say this world is fucked? Or do the work that makes it better.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I realize I juxtaposed "you" and "we" a lot here. That's because I
>>>>> recognize that I have really done nothing to push this forward so far,
>>>>> "you" have. But I feel so close to the ideal here, it's hard to not see
>>>>> myself in it. I hope you guys will forgive me grammar indiscretions. I am
>>>>> in awe of you all.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thank you so much for what you do.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Jason King
>>>>> > Sean's Outpost
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Tristan Winters <
>>>>> tristan_winters@??? <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com><tristan_winters@???>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > They are referring to this:
>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The foundation did not get 9 million dollars.
>>>>> > But as soon as the above company got VC backed, they became a
>>>>> “Gold Member” of the foundation.
>>>>> > And the foundation got a large number of Bitcoins in that way.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Anyway, this has clearly touched a nerve in the community. The
>>>>> crowd-funding 24hr response shows that.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 1 Nov 2013, at 2:25 pm, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
>>>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net> <genjix@???>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > this article is head in the clouds laa dee da that does not
>>>>> fit the reality.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > first of all bitcoin foundation should not be involved in
>>>>> development of
>>>>> > > bitcoin if that are interacting with the state. that means not
>>>>> paying
>>>>> > > salaries to people who exert undue influence over the protocol.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > if they choose to continue to be involved with bitcoin
>>>>> development then
>>>>> > > they should also support dark wallet, electrum, and hive
>>>>> (which are now
>>>>> > > combining as one project pooling our efforts).
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > if they want to be involved in development, then the role
>>>>> should be in
>>>>> > > establishing a neutral space (which i have not seen be done
>>>>> and have no
>>>>> > > confidence will be done). i want to see more stick. I've seen
>>>>> some cliquey
>>>>> > > and sneaky behaviour coming from bitcoind devs. multiple
>>>>> instances of
>>>>> > > top-down commands (evoking that power when not neccessary) or
>>>>> shutting
>>>>> > > down debate over contentious issues.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > twice i contacted the foundation over issues where I was being
>>>>> unfairly
>>>>> > > placed at a disadvantage as a dev because of office politics
>>>>> (being taken
>>>>> > > off mailing lists .etc) but they refused to intervene. they
>>>>> are paying
>>>>> > > salaries of devs. I would have words if someone I was working
>>>>> with was
>>>>> > > acting like a cunt.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > I told this to elizabeth already, and she's a force for good
>>>>> working on
>>>>> > > bitcoin with pure motives.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > from a journalist friend of ours. he sent me this yesterday:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >> Just got a call from the bitcoin foundation. They wouldn't go
>>>>> on the
>>>>> > >> record to comment on the article but just kept telling me
>>>>> "off the
>>>>> > >> record" that you lot have no credibility and that a much
>>>>> better story is
>>>>> > >> some venture capitalist yesterday investing $9m in bitcoin...
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > can't stop laughing. ok, where is this 9 million. what is it
>>>>> doing? i
>>>>> > > haven't seen any of it yet. they have all the resources,
>>>>> leigitimacy and
>>>>> > > attention but what have they done. they are lost in the
>>>>> politics.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > we have donations from many, not 1 rich fascist. how will this
>>>>> 9 million
>>>>> > > be used. the money from the community will go far, be
>>>>> collectively
>>>>> > > managed in a multisig and be used well. we don't waste 9
>>>>> million on
>>>>> > > lawyers giving to people part of the state apparatus.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > why don't they go on record and back up their words?
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > godspeed :) today we finally forced an important issue in
>>>>> bitcoin to the
>>>>> > > forefront. this is where we will make our stand for freedom
>>>>> and our
>>>>> > > values. great job cody for his mastermind work here.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >> The video is so fucken crazy. Thank God you’re a force for
>>>>> good.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> Another time and place you could work for the propaganda
>>>>> ministry of some
>>>>> > >> Eastern Block country. :)
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> Check this out also, it’s a balanced piece doing the rounds:
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> http://techliberation.com/2013/10/31/bitcoin-is-going-mainstream-here-is-why-cypherpunks-shouldnt-worry/
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> On 1 Nov 2013, at 2:01 pm, Cody R Wilson <
>>>>> codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu><codywilson@???>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>> I'd like to thank everyone on this list especially for the
>>>>> tremendous
>>>>> > >>> response the Dark Wallet campaign received yesterday. Within
>>>>> 24 hours we
>>>>> > >>> received just over 25k USD in combined contributions. Share
>>>>> the video if
>>>>> > >>> you haven't already. It seems to be popularizing the spirit
>>>>> of crypto.
>>>>> > >>> There is demand!
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Amir Taaki <
>>>>> genjix@??? <mailto:genjix@riseup.net> <genjix@???>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>> We're doing a crowd funding campaign for DarkWallet soon. I'm looking
>>>>> for any material (especially from people here) that we can weave into
>>>>> a tapestry of our vision and ideals.
>>>>>
>>>>> How we are thinking, what we are working towards, what interests us,
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Articles, videos, images, forum posts, ... anything. We want to
>>>>> present something to the people
>>>>>
>>>>> * It's not only about the 'black market' but tools for the people, the
>>>>> limitations and the monopoly of money / economy.
>>>>> * Tools like DarkWallet are your own financial system, a free financial
>>>>> system.
>>>>> * It's important to talk about independence and community (organising
>>>>> together).
>>>>> * Everything from petrol, food, computers, even our health is
>>>>> manipulated.
>>>>> * Finance is one aspect, but we need to take back control of more
>>>>> things.
>>>>> * Silk Road: $1.2 billion market, 2 murders, >2 years. DPR is a hero.
>>>>> Compare that with something like producing rice and all the people
>>>>> that die.
>>>>> * More simply:
>>>>> ** Bitcoin = amazing scifi. The blockchain is incredible.
>>>>> ** No technical limitations. The limitations are human limitations.
>>>>> ** We will have all the tools, but we need the community.
>>>>> * Bitcoin Foun
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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> _______________________________________________
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>
--
Nicolas Mendoza
Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
Grundversorgung 2.0 Project
Leuphana Inkubator
Leuphana Universität Lüneburg
Deutschland
PhD Researcher
School of Creative Media
City University of Hong Kong
China PDR - HKSAR
Collaborator
P2P Foundation
::
Re: [unSYSTEM] Call for material!
