Amir,

I did, and it is beautiful.

On Nov 1, 2013 12:17 PM, "Amir Taaki" <genjix@???> wrote:

> > did you read the section of the darkwallet.unsystem.net called we dont
> have to cooperate with control freaks?
>
> On 01/11/13 18:15, Jason King wrote:
> > I don't think anyone is advocating explaining ourselves to the
> > legacy power structure. And I also understand that IS what the
> > Bitcoin Foundation is currently engaged in. My point is that is
> > ultimately only detrimental to the bitcoin foundation. It is
> > irrelevant to anything being done here. In fact, you can probably
> > make the argument that the futility they participate in by
> > engageing regulators is actually keeping the spotlight off all the
> > other work being done.
> >
> > It doesn't have to be us vs them. It is my opinion that engaging in
> > this manner only strengthen peoples view of the power they have.
> > People don't rally against the irrelevant.
> >
> > Where as just doing what needs to be done, and concentrating on
> > spreading the work that is being done, is more beneficial and
> > productive than pointing fingers ever could be.
> >
> > They use fear. We don't have to.
> >
> > Just my .02btc
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > On Nov 1, 2013 11:50 AM, "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@???
> > <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I'm willing to write a longer piece for the magazine, an open
> > letter, anything if that is what is called for. I know
> > darkwallet.unsystem.net <http://darkwallet.unsystem.net> has more
> > direct criticism, but the message in my video toward the
> > foundation is toward a particular way of thinking- one featuring
> > our old friend ideology.
> >
> > In talking about the foundation I visuals from Orson Welle's film
> > adaption of Kafka's /The Trial/. Joseph K's chief naivete
> > throughout his engagement with the state is his sense that he can
> > both make a clear account of himself and his life and resolve his
> > situation in a way that the process would understand as resolved.
> >
> > The beautiful and terrible irony is that it is K's earnest
> > participation that renders him a more visible subject of power. No
> > account matters. It is the cooperation, the desire for discipline,
> > that leads to his execution.
> >
> > In this way I believe the video is gentle and honest in its
> > criticism. Asking for permission from and trying to explain
> > yourself to the legacy powers has only one end.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
> > <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Vitalik, this is the story we need to get out:
> >
> > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322483
> >
> > one of cooperation and mutual solidarity between competitors
> > finding middle ground to make effective use of resources. this is
> > the power and beauty of openness.
> >
> >> Thank you Jason, very solid argument. I'm not in favor of
> >> burning bridges myself; there are many great people in the
> >> foundation (eg. Elizabeth for one, and even Jon Matonis has
> >> publicly written
> > articles
> >> praising System D on numerous occasions), and we should work
> > with them
> >> to make the foundation better. I looked at the Dark Wallet
> > thread inside
> >> the foundation forums, and many people are excited about it.
> > There is
> >> absolutely no reason why we need to reject potential friends.
> >>
> >> I will consider writing an article myself over the next few
> > days or
> >> weeks, unless someone else wishes to take this responsibility.
> >>
> >> On 11/01/2013 10:37 AM, Jason King wrote:
> >>> To The Crew,
> >>>
> >>> I don't get near enough time to add to the conversation here.
> > That's
> >> too bad, I am so in awe of the work that is being done here
> > and would
> >> love to contribute more.
> >>> I first want to congratulate everyone on the indiegogo
> > campaign. The
> >> initial showing for the fundraiser is quite impressive. I have
> > no doubt
> >> you will exceed your financial goals on this. I donated.
> >>>
> >>> But I can't help but feel you are sacrificing a much larger
> > community
> >> impact by not having a more plain words description of the
> > benefits of
> >> dark wallet. The video is beautiful, well constructed, and
> > moving. It
> >> does exactly what it was intended to do. I was moved, I agree
> > with it's
> >> message...I am also /already on this mailing list. /
> >>> / / The indiegogo campaign has 133 contributors, that is not a
> > battalion,
> >> much less an army. And my feeling is that if the contributor
> > list was
> >> public I would already be familiar with most of the names on
> > the list.
> >> People that are already, publicly, aligned with the goals
> > stated by this
> >> campaign. Dark Wallet and the other ideals championed by this
> > group are
> >> important and necessary to EVERYBODY. Even the people that
> > don't know it
> >> yet. And the marketing campaign, in it's current form, is not
> > digestible
> >> to a large part of the community.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe that's the plan. Maybe you are trying to weed out
> >>> certain
> >> classes. But that, seems at odds with the ideals expressed here.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not saying to stop what you are doing, at all. I'm saying
> > I think
> >> there is a great force multiplier to be had by having an
> > additional,
> >> stripped down version of the message that focuses on just the
> > technical
> >> benefits of the platform as it is being proposed. The benefits
> >> are obvious. They do not need political overtone, fear, or
> >> anarchist galvanization to stand on their own merits.
> >>>
> >>> Why wouldn't you want trustless mixing?
> >>>
> >>> Why wouldn't you want to have alternative full wallet
> > implementations
> >> free of qt and bitcoind?
> >>>
> >>> Why wouldn't you want a more distributed group of developers
> > working
> >> on Bitcoin?
> >>>
> >>> Isn't the whole point of Bitcoin to do away with single point
> >>> of failure?
> >>>
> >>> These ideas are powerful, very powerful. The work you are
> > doing IS THE
> >> REVOLUTION. The revolution does not need a trumpeter next to
> > it saying,
> >> YO DAWG THIS IS THE REVOLUTION.
> >>>
> >>> I propose, sometime in the next few weeks, before the
> > campaign ends,
> >> you run a piece entitled "Shedding Light on Dark Wallet" that
> >> just explains all the benefits that Dark Wallet can offer, in
> >> very
> > plain
> >> terms. Just a clean, well put together, article or video that
> > explains
> >> the offering you are building. Completely free of any other
> > ancillary
> >> benefit or protection this technology may offer. I think you
> > will be
> >> shocked at how well something like that will be received.
> >>>
> >>> When you have been breathing smog, oxygen needs no hype man.
> >>>
> >>> And you say you need work, not ideas. If you guys are
> > interested in
> >> putting something like that together, I would be privileged to
> > help
> >> create it and promote it. And I think it will probably shake a
> > few more
> >> talented workers out of the woodwork.
> >>>
> >>> At the end of the day, do we want...
> >>>
> >>> To say fuck the US? Or to build the tools that will protect
> > everyone
> >> from their grasp?
> >>>
> >>> To say fuck the Bitcoin Foundation? Or use them as a speed
> > bump to
> >> dance with regulators, while we build the infrastructure that
> > makes the
> >> regulators and the foundation irrelevant?
> >>>
> >>> To say this world is fucked? Or do the work that makes it
> >>> better.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I realize I juxtaposed "you" and "we" a lot here. That's
> > because I
> >> recognize that I have really done nothing to push this forward
> > so far,
> >> "you" have. But I feel so close to the ideal here, it's hard
> > to not see
> >> myself in it. I hope you guys will forgive me grammar
> > indiscretions. I
> >> am in awe of you all.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you so much for what you do.
> >>>
> >>> Jason King Sean's Outpost
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Tristan Winters
> >> <tristan_winters@???
> > <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com>
> > <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com
> > <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> They are referring to this:
> >> http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
> >>>
> >>> The foundation did not get 9 million dollars. But as soon as
> >>> the above company got VC backed, they became a
> >> "Gold Member" of the foundation.
> >>> And the foundation got a large number of Bitcoins in that
> > way.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, this has clearly touched a nerve in the
> > community. The
> >> crowd-funding 24hr response shows that.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 1 Nov 2013, at 2:25 pm, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
> > <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
> >> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> this article is head in the clouds laa dee da that does
> > not fit
> >> the reality.
> >>>>
> >>>> first of all bitcoin foundation should not be involved in
> >> development of
> >>>> bitcoin if that are interacting with the state. that
> > means not
> >> paying
> >>>> salaries to people who exert undue influence over the
> > protocol.
> >>>>
> >>>> if they choose to continue to be involved with bitcoin
> >> development then
> >>>> they should also support dark wallet, electrum, and
> > hive (which
> >> are now
> >>>> combining as one project pooling our efforts).
> >>>>
> >>>> if they want to be involved in development, then the
> > role should
> >> be in
> >>>> establishing a neutral space (which i have not seen be
> > done and
> >> have no
> >>>> confidence will be done). i want to see more stick.
> > I've seen
> >> some cliquey
> >>>> and sneaky behaviour coming from bitcoind devs. multiple
> >> instances of
> >>>> top-down commands (evoking that power when not
> > neccessary) or
> >> shutting
> >>>> down debate over contentious issues.
> >>>>
> >>>> twice i contacted the foundation over issues where I
> > was being
> >> unfairly
> >>>> placed at a disadvantage as a dev because of office
> > politics
> >> (being taken
> >>>> off mailing lists .etc) but they refused to intervene.
> > they are
> >> paying
> >>>> salaries of devs. I would have words if someone I was
> > working
> >> with was
> >>>> acting like a cunt.
> >>>>
> >>>> I told this to elizabeth already, and she's a force for
> > good
> >> working on
> >>>> bitcoin with pure motives.
> >>>>
> >>>> from a journalist friend of ours. he sent me this
> > yesterday:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Just got a call from the bitcoin foundation. They
> > wouldn't go
> >> on the
> >>>>> record to comment on the article but just kept telling
> > me "off
> >>> the
> >>>>> record" that you lot have no credibility and that a
> > much better
> >> story is
> >>>>> some venture capitalist yesterday investing $9m in
> > bitcoin...
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> can't stop laughing. ok, where is this 9 million. what
> > is it
> >> doing? i
> >>>> haven't seen any of it yet. they have all the resources,
> >> leigitimacy and
> >>>> attention but what have they done. they are lost in the
> > politics.
> >>>>
> >>>> we have donations from many, not 1 rich fascist. how
> > will this 9
> >> million
> >>>> be used. the money from the community will go far, be
> > collectively
> >>>> managed in a multisig and be used well. we don't waste
> > 9 million
> >>> on
> >>>> lawyers giving to people part of the state apparatus.
> >>>>
> >>>> why don't they go on record and back up their words?
> >>>>
> >>>> godspeed :) today we finally forced an important issue in
> >> bitcoin to the
> >>>> forefront. this is where we will make our stand for
> > freedom and
> >>> our
> >>>> values. great job cody for his mastermind work here.
> >>>>
> >>>>> The video is so fucken crazy. Thank God you're a force
> > for good.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Another time and place you could work for the propaganda
> >> ministry of some
> >>>>> Eastern Block country. :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Check this out also, it's a balanced piece doing the
> > rounds:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >
> http://techliberation.com/2013/10/31/bitcoin-is-going-mainstream-here-is-why-cypherpunks-shouldnt-worry/
> >
> >
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 1 Nov 2013, at 2:01 pm, Cody R Wilson
> > <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
> >> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>>
> > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to thank everyone on this list especially
> > for the
> >> tremendous
> >>>>>> response the Dark Wallet campaign received yesterday.
> > Within
> >> 24 hours we
> >>>>>> received just over 25k USD in combined contributions.
> > Share
> >> the video if
> >>>>>> you haven't already. It seems to be popularizing the
> > spirit of
> >> crypto.
> >>>>>> There is demand!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Amir Taaki
> > <genjix@??? <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
> >> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>> wrote:
> >>> Hi!
> >>>
> >>> We're doing a crowd funding campaign for DarkWallet soon. I'm
> > looking
> >>> for any material (especially from people here) that we can
> > weave into
> >>> a tapestry of our vision and ideals.
> >>>
> >>> How we are thinking, what we are working towards, what
> > interests us, ...
> >>>
> >>> Articles, videos, images, forum posts, ... anything. We want
> >>> to present something to the people
> >>>
> >>> * It's not only about the 'black market' but tools for the
> > people, the
> >>> limitations and the monopoly of money / economy. * Tools like
> >>> DarkWallet are your own financial system, a free
> > financial
> >>> system. * It's important to talk about independence and
> >>> community
> > (organising
> >>> together). * Everything from petrol, food, computers, even our
> >>> health is manipulated. * Finance is one aspect, but we need to
> >>> take back control of more things. * Silk Road: $1.2 billion
> >>> market, 2 murders, >2 years. DPR is
> > a hero.
> >>> Compare that with something like producing rice and all the
> > people
> >>> that die. * More simply: ** Bitcoin = amazing scifi. The
> >>> blockchain is incredible. ** No technical limitations. The
> >>> limitations are human
> > limitations.
> >>> ** We will have all the tools, but we need the community. *
> >>> Bitcoin Foundation has a lot of money, all the legitimacy
> > but they do
> >>> nothing. They are lost in the politics, but aren't thinking
> > of serving
> >>> the people. * We are here now working with the future in mind.
> >>> These
> > things take
> >>> time and are slow. Maybe 5 years from now all these crazy
> > concepts
> >>> become reality. ** Bitcoin is still young. ** It's also about
> >>> the internet. ** Bitcoin is something new but immensely
> >>> powerful.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
> >>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> >>>>>>
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -- Sincerely,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cody R. Wilson codywilson@???
> >>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
> > <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The University of Texas School of Law Class of 2014
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
> >>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> >>>>>>
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
> >>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> >>>>>
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
> >>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> >>>>
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
> >>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> >>>
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
> >>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >
> >>>
> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
> >> list: http://unsystem.net
> >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
> > list: http://unsystem.net
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Sincerely,
> >
> > Cody R. Wilson codywilson@???
> > <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
> >
> > The University of Texas School of Law Class of 2014
> >
> > _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
> > list: http://unsystem.net
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
> > list: http://unsystem.net
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >
>
> - --
> Abolish the NSA
> > _______________________________________________
> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>