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Author: Set (setto)" Hallströ
To: devuan developers internal list
Subject: [devuan-dev] Meeting notes2024-02-15
-- Devuan meet 2024-02-15 @20:30 UTC --

Present: Adam, DelTomix,fsmithred, golinux

Regrets: setto

Old Business


- proposed preface to 'Navigating the usrmerge transition':

- Edit of DelTomix's upbeat version:
Debian is proceeding with a full implementation of the [merged usr file
structure](https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge) during this current
testing cycle. In order to focus Devuan's available resources on our
primary purpose regarding systemd, we have decided it is in Devuan's
best interest to implement the usrmerge. 
  - (Xenguy) This wording seems really good and succinct.  The last
point that comes to mind is whether there is a way to indicate that the
primary danger is a use case where someone is contemplating initiating
an upgrade from stable to testing (it is of course already mentioned in
point #2 of the 6-point statement, but perhaps there should be some
reference to it early on, e.g. "If you are thinking of migrating from
stable to testing, listen up!".  :-)
    - Can we please see it in situ on you mockup. Pretty pleeease? :)
        - (DelTomix) golinux rewording:
https://deltomix.com/D1X_Pb4TbD8XBi8JUM2Zk/testing_status2.html Point 1
becomes partially redundant with preface, so revised that also (in both
    - (Xenguy) Mock-up page #2 looks very good.  A couple of
      - s|Testing/Excalibur;|Testing/Excalibur|
      - re: point #5: s/backup(s)/backups/
        - I'm not seeing a difference . . .
          - semi-colon
          - (DT) Done - also narrower done margin done
            - (gl) needs more margin on the R side. Currently lop-sided
should be more centered above the text. @DT you are FAST! I'm still not
happy wih the proportions but that can be tweaked later . . .

  - (Xenguy) I think it would be good to link the text 'merged usr file
structure' with some page that documents well what this issue is all
about.  Does anyone know a good candidate page to link to?
    - (DelTomix) https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge
    - (Xenguy) Thanks DelTomix, I applied that page link above.

Old Actions

New Business


formalising rpi arm releases
There was a discussion over the positioning and 'officialdom' of ARM
images for various platforms, noting that many are quite dated and
unmaintained. (see footnote 1)

However, the RPi images (nightly builds & signed stables) have been
maintained now for about 3 years.

The topic to be raised is can we improve the on-line positioning of
maintained arm & other platform images.

In particular & if desired, the jenkins toolchain that builds the
current RPi images can be migrated to devuan resources, etc.

In general, for the road to 'officialdom', perhaps a couple of words or
light set criteria should be set to give good understanding of how
'official' support status - to move into or out of.

It would be great to further encourage and support enthusiatic people
and give clarity on how they may usefully assist in maintaining a
devuan platform image with sustainability in mind.

 - (fsmithred) raspi signed images can go on fdo in 'embedded' dir as
they were in jessie and ascii. Nightly builds can stay in arm-files and
can be linked to/from fdo.
 - (adam to do): 
    - find out what happened to beowulf stable images.
    - generate and sign images for daedalus.
    - Draft README: release notes document one each for for stable and

LeePen featured as guest in Dyne Podcast: Pseudo Op episode 1
- Setto currently editting.
- should be released soon.
- talks about usrmerge issues and much more ...

Dyne:bolic IV alpha release
- based on Devuan Daedalus, Dyne:bolic live distribution for artists,
hackers & creators has reached an early alpha version.


**Question:**  Is there a potential point release in the offing?
  - (DelTomix) Yes - possibly - need input on coordinating release
note/changelog revisions and so on, also whether version number should
be 5.5.x to sync with bookworm 12.5. Otherwise it would just be an
updated ISO revision.
    - (fsr) Past point-releases did not sync with debian points. We
just go sequentially on our own. 

New Actions


- refractasnapshot-base and -gui built for ceres/excalibur supports
zstd compression in initramfs.

- Planning to do updated installer-ISO (Daedalus) release over the
coming week, given that Bookworm is up to 12.5. Discuss with fsmithred
about point release vs iso revision, release notes and so on. Also
debating addition of `.img` format as an option - perhaps just for
netinstall and server.



- Testing possible fix for small delay merging Debian security updates.


- Update to stable [version
- Update plugins


- experimental:-
    * base-files (with Depends: usrmerge | usr-is-merged). Ack from
fsmithred awaited before uploading to ceres.
      - (fsmithred) I am unable to repeat the tests that I did almost
two months ago. Go ahead and put it in ceres. Maybe we should warn our
ceres users that it's coming. I still suspect that the usrmerge package
is broken, but I'm unable to debug it.

- ceres:-

    * network-manager
    * colord
    * tasksel
    * unattended-upgrades (Debian .dsc rebuild)

- daedalus:-

    * debian-installer

- beowulf-proposed-updates:-

    * tomcat9
-- Footnotes --

(1) Background discussion of ARM images prominence and 'officialdom'
distilled from #devuan IRC channel

[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:34:40 CET] <buZz> DelTomix: and about
not having ARM images on mirrors?
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:36:04 CET] <DelTomix> I've not really
looked into the mirrors much - I think onefang would be the one to
raise it with - but sounds like it would make sense these days
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:41:00 CET] <DelTomix> I'll bring it up
at the next meet
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:41:14 CET] <buZz> <3 thanks
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:42:47 CET] <golinux> buZz: The arm
images are not 'official' but community provided. That's is why they
are not on the official list
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:43:16 CET] <buZz> right
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:43:24 CET] <buZz> golinux: thats a route
for improvement then :D
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:43:48 CET] <golinux> And why arm support
in not under Devuan on Dev1Galaxy
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:44:01 CET] <buZz> i mean, there wont be
LESS people watching for arm versions in the future
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:44:08 CET] <buZz> it will only continue
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:44:59 CET] <buZz> and on any issue -
finding- the arm images, they'll just jump to another distro
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:45:07 CET] <DelTomix> yes - and if its
available it should be visible
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:45:16 CET] <buZz> its been available
since day0 :D
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:45:27 CET] <buZz> it 'is' visible, but
hard to find, imho
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:47:00 CET] <DelTomix> right
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:49:39 CET] <rustyaxe> buZz: the whole
world wants to move to arm? lol
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:49:59 CET] <golinux> Unless the status
of the ARM images changes from community to official, they won't be
promoted on our 'official' channels. I don;t even know who would be
making that decision as there are so few of us trying to keep things
together . . .
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:51:08 CET] <golinux> And that is not
within the scope of this channel
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:51:47 CET] <buZz> rustyaxe: looking at
'internet connected devices' by cpu, the world already did
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:52:51 CET] <DelTomix> would that be
rather weighted by mobile/tablet universe though?
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:53:23 CET] <DelTomix> I guess lots of
routers and appliances also
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:53:51 CET] <golinux> The industry will
get hooks into you however they can . . .
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [19:56:14 CET] <golinux> Regardless . . . if
and until someone steps up to keep the arm images up-to-date and
reliable, it will remain a community project.
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:23:06 CET] <adam_free2air> well, for 3
years now I've been offering reliable and up to date nightly Raspberry
Pi images for close to 3 years with images for all hardware variants
together with signed stable versions (except for daedalus, which is
planned soon after some RPi5 testing).
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:26:57 CET] <golinux> Yes, and thank you
adam_free2air . . . but are the other arm images are reliably
maintained as yours?
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:27:37 CET] <golinux> Sorry that's a
little garbled . . .
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:27:41 CET] <adam_free2air> but the full
arm landscape is vast and not as standardised. there is no easy way to
provide boot images that will work out of the box for the majority of
the universe of arm platforms.
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:28:30 CET] <adam_free2air> to the best
of my knowledge, no. none of the others have been regularly updated.
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:29:25 CET] <adam_free2air> but maybe the
structure and positioning of the arm pages should be reconsidered ....
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:29:28 CET] <golinux> So perhaps the
Raspberry Pi should be singled out for 'official' status'?
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:30:04 CET] <adam_free2air> golinux: i
would support that.
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:31:27 CET] <golinux> adam_free2air: That
might be the best solution!
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:31:32 CET] <DelTomix> places where there
are "unofficial" things available can be mentioned
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:31:48 CET] <DelTomix> the point is not
to have to go digging for it
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:33:35 CET] <golinux> But the reliable
and up-to-date RPI images should not be lumped in with the out-of-date
and experimental stuff.
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:34:12 CET] <golinux> Both our ideas a
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:34:15 CET] <adam_free2air> DelTomix:
perhaps not well expressed, but exactly what i meant above with re-
evaluating "positioning".
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:34:20 CET] <golinux> a > are
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:34:49 CET] <DelTomix> yes totally agree
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:35:16 CET] <adam_free2air> golinux:
indeed. maybe to come up with a lightweight minimum commitment or
process to move to officialdom 🙂
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:36:32 CET] <adam_free2air> something
that gives people with motivation the right directions to head in for
each platform.
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:36:45 CET] <golinux> Sounds good to me.
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:37:38 CET] <golinux> and adam
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:38:45 CET] <golinux> -free2air has
certainly set the bar
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:41:27 CET] <golinux> It would take some
rearranging of www and also location of the image downloads.
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:43:39 CET] <golinux> adam_free2air: Can
you possibly come to the meet next week and/or put something on the pad
for discussion
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [20:43:53 CET] <golinux> ?
[Sunday, 11 February 2024] [21:13:24 CET] <adam_free2air> certainly on
pad & will speak to setto too, but unfortunately may not be able to
attend, or might be able to but late in meeting.