On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:46:12 +0000
Manfred Wassmann via Dng <dng@???> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 11:57 AM tito via Dng <dng@???> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 08:43:24 +0000
> > Manfred Wassmann via Dng <dng@???> wrote:
> >
> > > From my experience, I gave it a try in Debian Bullseye and i ended up with
> >
> > > a running but removed pid 1 systemd which wasn't able to do anything and
> > > after trying all other options the system had to be shut down by unplugging
> > > the power supply. So they may not have a compatibility layer in Debian,
> > > which seems likely to me, or there is no (functional) stability guarantee
> > > with systemd.
> >
> > Hi,
> > in bookworm you cannot remove systemd even if you try very hard
> > with dpkg --force-all etc. unless you delete it by hand.
>
> I checked the Bookworm package and it has exactly the same pre-remove
> script as the Bullseye package and for all who are not familiar enough
> with the Debian package management system: If a prerm script of a
> package returns an error, the removal of the package is aborted and
> there is no --force-XXX option which would override that behaviour.
> Now the systemd prerm script checks for the existence of a directory
> which systemd creates when it starts up and errors out (exit 1) in
> that case. As noted in the file this code exactly is there to prevent
> the systemd package to be removed if systemd is the active init.
>
> > You can install another init with systemd running and reboot to it.
> > OTOH you can remove sysvinit with dpkg more easily and end
> > with a removed pid 1. Tested.
>
> Then you should probably go to Ian Jackson's Blog at
> diziet.dreamwidth.org, which initially spurred this thread[1], and
> notify him about that. He surely will be delighted if a real insider

I don't think I would like to do this but go on if you feel it is the right thing (TM).
OTOH maybe I should file a bug report against sysvinit that it can be
removed while running as PID 1 even if with --force-all.

> points out his whole story of needing to hack the install process to
> be able to replace systemd in Debian and how to do it was nothing but
> an excuse to post some Anti-Devuan-FUD.
>
> [1] https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20230721.011329.adaba746.en.html
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