On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 19:41:28 +0900
Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng <dng@???> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> dng@??? writes:
>
> > On 08-06-2021 00:46, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jun 08, 2021 at 12:05:39AM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> >>> ..snip "tech" justification of subversive systemd politics.
> >>>
> >>>> So in summary, there is no way of running cockpit in a
> >>>> non-systemd/Linux environment that I'd be willing to support.
> >> Most of the worries mentioed here seem a bit overblown, but still
> >> need to be considered.
> >>> ..found just 3 mentions of "systemd", and this gem in:
> >>> https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/c/cockpit/cockpit_243-1_changelog
> >>> "- Detect unregistered RHEL systems on Software Updates page"
> >> But I did look at those mentions of systemd. The one I found
> >> worrisome was the first:
> >>
> >> * Add smoke autopkgtest that can run in containers.
> >> Add a simple test of cockpit-bridge and the login page to
> >> ensure that packages have the right dependencies and contents, and
> >> that the systemd units are set up correctly to get a login page on
> >> https://localhost:9090.
> >> This can also run in a container and thus in Debian's CI and
> >> on all
> >>
> >> If systemd becomes an integral par of Debian's packaging system,
> >> it may cause us difficulties.
> >>
> >> -- hendrik
> >>> ..now, Martin Pitt does offer a good recommendation:
> >>>> For these I'd rather recommend looking at webmin, ebox, or
> >>>> similar project."
> >>> ..https://alternativeto.net/software/cockpit-linux/
> >>>
> >>> ..to maintain e.g. webmin (https://www.webmin.com/ )
> >>> support for cockpit, you may wanna look at these 2: ...
> >>> "https://packages.debian.org/sid/cockpit-bridge
> >>> Cockpit bridge server-side component
> >>> The Cockpit bridge component installed server side and runs
> >>> commands on the system on behalf of the web based user interface."
> >>> ...and "https://packages.debian.org/sid/cockpit-tests
> >>> Tests for Cockpit
> >>> This package contains tests and files used while testing Cockpit.
> >>> These files are not required for running Cockpit." ...
> >>>
> >>> ...and check systemd and cockpit brass thinking: ...
> >>> https://packages.debian.org/sid/cockpit-doc
> >>> "Cockpit deployment and developer guide
> >>> The Cockpit Deployment and Developer Guide shows sysadmins how to
> >>> deploy Cockpit on their machines as well as helps developers who
> >>> want to embed or extend Cockpit."
> >>>
> >>> ...against: https://packages.debian.org/source/sid/cockpit
> >>> and the possible potential Ken Thompson style hacks:
> >>> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Ken+Thompson+style+hacks&ia=web
> >>>
> >>> ..and, who needs a compiler with systemd onboard? My guess is
> >>> systemd running as PID1, can be set up to launch such possible
> >>> "Ken Thompson style hack" attacks, all you need to do is hide
> >>> them away in binaries somewhere "neccessary" online, so these new
> >>> Cockpit web admin user systemd victims never understand them,
> >>> even if they ever find out how to read such C etc code...
> >>>
> >>> ..on cockpit and alternatives:
> >>> https://www.unixmen.com/cockpit-a-beginner-friendly-server-administration-tool/
> >>> https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2020/241/Cockpit
> >>> https://www.hostingadvice.com/how-to/cpanel-vs-plesk-vs-webpanel/
> >>> https://alternativeto.net/software/webmin/
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_hosting_control_panels
> >>>
> >>> ..cockpit is not known by Wikipedia:
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_(disambiguation)
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&profile=default&search=intitle%3A%22Cockpit%22&ns0=1
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ..turns out ebox changed its name, and, it does not support
> >>> Procmail: https://zentyal.com/features/
> >>>
> >>> ..webmin supports procmail.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
> >>> ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
> >>> Scenarios always come in sets of three:
> >>> best case, worst case, and just in case.
> >
> > Not hindered by any knowledge about system programming I am
> > wondering how much work it would be to implement a socket
> > activation interface without systemd. Although what I read about
> > its design it is unnecessary complicated. Using a tinylog component
> > in systemd until syslogd is loaded is one example of such
> > complicating solution.
> >
> > Has anyone invested some time in analyzing systemd's socket
> > activation and mind to share it on this list or in email?
>
> When I read[1]
>
> Cockpit itself doesn’t eat resources or even run in the background
> when you’re not using it. It runs on demand, thanks to systemd
> socket activation.
Hi,
would it be possible to start it with a initscript and let it run?
and totally ignore this socket stuff?
> all I could think of was that inetd and xinetd have been doing that
> job for a (couple of) decade(s) already.
>
> The only other mention of systemd on that webpage is one in a longish
> "subset of tasks you can perform on each host running Cockpit" that
> says you can
>
> Inspect and interact with systemd-based services
Having briefly looked and grepped the source when I removed webmin
from my systems (when it was backdoored) the biggest problem
is that cockpit calls systemctl, hostnamectl and friends directly so
without systemd functionality is crippled as no alternative functions
are provided. It could be an idea and helpful for devuan mastering
the systemd dependency epidemic to create some wrappers for
this systemd binaries as compatibility layer rather than try to modify
every program out there that thinks it needs to depend on systemd,
that way you just modify the dependencies of the cockpit package,
resign it and you are good to go.
just my 0,2 cents.
Ciao,
Tito
> That all nice and well if you have any but doesn't seem to interfere
> with all the other tasks listed.
>
> [1]: https://cockpit-project.org/
>
> Hope this helps,
> --
> Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2 FSF Associate Member since
> 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4
> A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Software
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Re: [DNG] ..maybe webmin?, was: Coc…
