:: Re: [devuan-dev] [Fwd] Devuan: invi…
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Autor: golinux
Datum:  
To: devuan developers internal list
Betreff: Re: [devuan-dev] [Fwd] Devuan: invitation to join the Debian derivatives census
On 2018-09-30 16:01, Daniel Reurich wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think this is simply someone in Debian recognising that they have
> holes in information about derivatives.
>


Really? Can't they read the website? I'm getting more sense of
"capture".

> My thoughts are that we should participate, as it will do a lot to help
> smooth things over and give credence to our concerns, and be seen to be
> cooperative with debian.
>


I thought we have always been cooperative with Devuan and that the lack
of cooperation was on Debian's side.

>
> Also by listing Devuan as an official derivative of Debian, we gain a
> big benefit in allaying the concern that we are a small team
> maintaining
> a big distribution on it's own. (I have had this discussion with some
> of my clients, who were concerned about Devuans sustainability. What
> convinced them to allow my use of Devuan for their systems was that
> most
> Debian packages are used unchanged, and where there where changes they
> are trivial changes to the Debian sources in order to remove the binary
> dependency of systemd.
>
> From what I can tell looking at the CensusQA templates, they will
> actually inform us of issues and announcements as they arise which
> would
> be very useful.
>


Possibly good for your business but it is good for Devuan?

>
> Thus I think there is nothing to lose and much to gain by participating
> in the process. It will provide us with much needed information about
> what is going on in Debian, and provide us with a better relationship
> from which we can assert the need to prevent debian maintainers from
> going out of their way to break non-systemd packages.
>


I'm not so sure about that. When have they ever listened to us?

>
> I'd be happy to take the lead in getting us listed as a derivative of
> Debian.


Well, if you want to take it on in your spare time [/sarcasm] . . .

> (This does not mean we are walking back in any way the claim to
> have forked Debian, just acknowledging Devuans heritage, and continuing
> commonality with debian.)
>


I think it does take us a step back. Debian would LOVE to
minimize/trivialize what we're doing. Once we're pigeon-holed as a
derivative how will we ever break through back to independence as a fork
if it comes to that? I think the derivative label would stick and
Debian might even try to require changes of how we describe ourselves
disallowing the use of "fork". In my world I "trust no one" who has
betrayed me once.

Let's discuss further at the Wed. meet.

>
> Regards,
>     Daniel.

>
>
>
>
>
> On 30/09/18 21:20, Jaromil wrote:
>>
>> dear devs,
>>
>> we receive this from a Debian volunteer
>>
>> do we want to enter the census as a 'derivative'?
>>
>> I disagree with this, since I think we are not, but ask you here
>> nevertheless
>>
>> also there is a strange detail in this mail, which was sent in HTML
>> and rendered by my mail client using w3m: the first link to devuan.org
>> has a href pointing to mxlinux.org. I really hope they won't include
>> us by mistake with a wrong link now.
>>
>> curious about your opinion. the origin of the mail is left out for
>> privacy (is a personal gmail account for some reason)
>>
>> ----- Forwarded message -----
>>
>> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 13:17:12 +0530
>> To: onelove@???
>> Cc: debian-derivatives@???
>> Subject: Devuan: invitation to join the Debian derivatives census
>>
>>    Hi,
>>    I note that you are producing a software distribution based on 
>> Debian.

>>
>>    [1]https://devuan.org/
>>    [2]https://www.debian.org/

>>
>>    I would like to invite you to add your distribution to the Debian
>>    derivatives census, which attempts to gather detailed information
>>    about Debian derivatives that is useful to Debian, for integration 
>> of
>>    that information into Debian infrastructure and for the development 
>> of
>>    relationships between Debian and our derivatives. In addition we 
>> will
>>    be doing some QA on the data that you enter into the census.

>>
>>    [3]https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census
>>    [4]https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Integration
>>    [5]https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/CensusQA

>>
>>    Please direct any questions you have to the derivatives list or IRC
>>    channel. We strongly encourage you to join both of these.

>>
>>    [6]https://lists.debian.org/debian-derivatives
>>    ircs://[7]irc.oftc.net/debian-derivatives
>>    Thanks

>>
>> References
>>
>>    Visible links
>>    1. https://mxlinux.org/
>>    2. https://www.debian.org/
>>    3. https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census
>>    4. https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Integration
>>    5. https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/CensusQA
>>    6. https://lists.debian.org/debian-derivatives
>>    7. http://irc.oftc.net/debian-derivatives

>>
>> ----- End forwarded message -----