On 20/09/2018 10:13, Ribdro wrote:
> On 2018-09-20 03:02, m712 wrote:
>>
>>
>> On September 20, 2018 12:32:07 AM GMT+03:00, KatolaZ
>> <katolaz@???> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 10:55:38PM +0300, m712 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On September 19, 2018 8:09:52 PM GMT+03:00, Steve Litt
>>> <slitt@???> wrote:
>>>>> Long observation of
>>>>> people resenting CoCs  is they want the right to speak cruelly to
>>>>> individuals and speak cruelly about groups of people, those groups
>>>>> having nothing to do with the list's core foundation (Linux sans
>>>>> systemd, in our case).
>>>> Sorry, Steve, that's intellectually dishonest. You're painting a
>>> black-and-white picture of "if people oppose CoCs then they must want
>>> to do things not allowed by the CoCs", however in all instances I have
>>> encountered where the need for a CoC was disputed I have seen the exact
>>> opposite. You do not need a CoC to protect people from bad words, and
>>> people who are contributing nothing but insults are quickly killfiled.
>>> CoCs do nothing but introduce filibustering in between contributors.
>>> The previous "Code of Conflict" was entirely adequate. The creator of
>>> the Contributor Covenant has written a "Post-Meritocracy Manifesto"[1]
>>> which describes meritocracies as "benefit[ing] those with privilege",
>>> aka social justice bullshit. The Linux kernel community /depends/ on a
>>> meritocracy, and this is absurd.
>>>
>>> The Linux kernel community, as any coding community, is based on
>>> people that do things together, share common goals and principles,
>>> trust each other, and produce actual code.
>>>
>>> Social science is very good for discussing about the plus and minus of
>>> a community, which behaviours are good or bad, which things could be
>>> done in order for the community to become more like this or more like
>>> that. But social science alone does not deliver code. And code is what
>>> your computer needs to run. You can argue as much as you want with
>>> your wifi card, or even yell at it in rage, but that won't convince it
>>> to work without a proper device driver for your OS. That driver needs
>>> a hacker to be written.
>>>
>>> I know that what I say is harsh, and that many people might feel
>>> offended by that, but honestly most of the people I have heard talking
>>> about CoCs and post-meritocracy so far are those who have no clue of
>>> how a large (or even a small) piece of software is put together. There
>>> are obviously exceptions, but are not many, unfortunately.
>>>
>>> The Linux kernel is available to billions of people only thanks to a
>>> bunch of damn good hackers, who have collectively produced code worth
>>> millions of man-months without the need of a silly CoC or of a
>>> post-meritocracy manifesto. IMHO, the only "privilege" they have
>>> enjoyed is to have produced something useful for a lot of
>>> people. Sadly, most of us can only dream about that.
>>>
>>> My2Cents
>>>
>>> KatolaZ
>>
>> Thank you. This is what I was trying to convey, perhaps my lack of
>> proficiency in the English language prevented me from doing so (plus
>> some leftover outrage perhaps).
>>
>>             m712
>
> Steve,
> It seems you are being less than inclusive to those who have a
> differing opinion on the merits and potential issues of the CoC.
>
> You are in potential violation of the "insulting/derogatory comments,
> and personal or political attacks" line in the CoC.
>
> You have stated "Long observation of people resenting CoCs  is they
> want the right to speak cruelly to individuals and speak cruelly about
> groups of people"
>
> By implication you are saying those people are cruel or at least
> undesirables based only on their opinions or resistance to the CoC not
> any actual action taken or words said by those individuals.
>
> This certainly seems personal and insulting to those who have, what I
> would consider, legitimate concerns.
>
> I would recommend you focus on one of the examples of good behavior
> mentioned in the CoC: "Being respectful of differing viewpoints and
> experiences"
>
> However, I would say you are 100% correct that this is off-topic and
> irrelevant.
>
> -Regards
> _______________________________________________
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@???
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng

Hmmm. Grumpy old man what writes software for a living is glad he is old
and will be dead soon.

Anybody wanting me to sign up to a Code Of Conduct can go ...well...
whatever pleases them.

In my paid job I abide by the rules - and bend them mercilessly because
the eejits what employ me are too stupid to notice. I test software mods
properly before making them live. Frowned upon for reducing 'productivity'.

I believe the modern term is 'snowflakes'. The modern world is full of
snowflakes, and what will they do when reality hits? I'll spare you 'In
my day young person'!

DaveT