Devuan meet Oct. 11/12 2017 @20:30 UTC

Pad is here:
https://pad.dyne.org/code/#/1/edit/FhoPmtMsprXV1Lzl-O1YMw/VQuYpRCPOiJFRAz9maS3mJcL/

Please post notes prior to the meet.

Meet here: https://jitsi.dyne.org/devuan

Present: golinux, Centurion_Dan, fsmithred, blinkdog, evilham,
parazyd(IRC/pad), flibbertgibbet, tremon, KatolaZ, gnu_srs (pad)

## Notes

### KatolaZ
   * Like the new pad :)
   * (golinux) The colors suck. Will hopefully be changed soon.  The fist
      is also gone!  :(

### blinkdog
* Will attend, [FSM](https://www.venganza.org/) willing

### rrq
   * will attend
   * status of newtonia-nemesis / ganeti set up
     - newtonia is set up and added into the ganeti cluster, as
       master-capable node
     - local subnets are linked using "ipsec" (lan_br to lan_br, and
       gnt_br to gnt_br)
     - the ipsec linking needs subnet host routes to be managed with
       instances; presently by manual blessing

### CenturionDan
   * likes that the new icon for cryptpad, but colour scheme not so much 
;-)
   * has enabled parazyd to do more on the ci and packaging.
   * has engaged with rrq towards getting ganeti running.
   * proposes
     - keen to setup an infrastructure working group with a focus on
       dealing with:
         - a) the current friction in the build process that is slowing
               work on ascii
         - b) decide and action upgrade gitlab or replacement with
               something better
              (what "better" means will have to be defined by the working
               group)
     - suggest a working group is also formed to discuss ascii release 
and
       particularly the inclusion of AntoFox's Mate and Cinammon 
packages.
     - Move all services from nextime's infrastructure to Devuan's ganeti
       infrastructure as soon as reasonably possible.

### golinux
   * Talked to the cryptpad folks about theming but the file they
       pointed me to only contains the orange BG color for the code pad
       as well as the bg colors for all the other pad options ie
       presentation, poll, rich text etc .  Will poke around their github 
  to
       try to find the rest of the equation
   * Now that Evilham is back, will try to tidy up the website.

### parazyd
   * won't be attending video/audio
      - (golinux) very bad timing
   * will be setting up the arm64 build node for jenkins
   * rsyslog is done, just needs to be built now on a proper arm64
     machine
   * build005 should be updated to ascii so we can build newer versions
      of sysvinit and util-linux
      - (gnu_srs) I can upgrade build005 to ascii if  you want to.
        Anything specific?
       - (parazyd) no, just a simple ascii upgrade. update any qemu
               installations as well if there are any (i think arm64)
   * antofox accepted his package inclusion. please discuss the path to
      proceed with this

### fsmithred
   * I don't see where to log in. It didn't ask when I got here.
     - (golinux) Login to your account here https://pad.dyne.org/ and
       then open the pad. You can also change your name from the top
       right icon.
   * Will attend.
   * New signing key: (I guess I should email this to someone. Want it
     encrypted?)
pub   4096R/094C5620 2017-10-07 [expires: 2018-10-07]
       Key fingerprint = 67F5 0132 1627 1E85 C251  E480 A738 23D3
       094C 5620
uid                  fsmithred (aka fsr) <fsmithred@???>
sub   4096R/77774219 2017-10-07 [expires: 2018-10-07]

     - (golinux) I guess that will have to be changed on the 'Team' page
       of the site?
     - (blinkdog)
          gpg --recv-keys 094C5620
          gpg --export --armor 094C5620
   * refracta forum dilemma with tapatalk hosting and possible migration
      to the VPS (where d1g started)

### tremon
    (golinux had difficulty deciphering who said what in this section.)

  * eudev seems to be working fine (2 machines tested)
    - the 220 epoch is irksome (it looks amateurish)
    - (gnu_srs) As I wrote in the email it is ugly. I propose
      220-3.2.2-devuan2.x as name.
      And not install the epoch versions from experimental in ascii*
    - yep, that will do. But I'd prefer if it didn't have the old system
      version number in it.
      upstream eudev simply uses 3.2.2, and we can reuse that or
      add an epoch of 1
      No we can not use 3.2.2 or 220-3.2.2 etc. Current version on
      my  box is is 232-22
    - why not? man deb-version(5) says that is what we should do,
      ideally.   To verify:
      dpkg --compare-versions 1:3.2.2 ge 
220-whatever-version-systemd-uses && echo true
       - (i think we've tried this a few times. the problem i encountered
         is that packages depend on the epoch, iirc. ~parazyd)
   - (gnu_srs) I proposed to rename everyting to eudev, also libudev*
      But that was not accepted by parazyd
    - (parazyd) and it won't. a thing called libeudev does not exist in
     real world. eudev also implements libudev as is.
     (gnu_srs) Well, let's use 1:220-3.2.2-x then
   - (tremon) If there is no other solution, then we can use whatever
     works. But it's not clear to me why an epoch of 1 wouldn't work --
     unless other packages have explicit dependencies on a specific
     libudev version but in that case, the 220 epoch shouldn't work 
either
       most jessie packages depend on >=215; not sure about ascii yet
   - stretch-backports (stable) has 234-3+... So 220-something wouldn't
     work.
   - dpkg --compare-versions 1:0.1 ge 234-3+  ## even 1:0.1 is greater
     than an epoch of 0
   - As I wote above, let's use 1:220-3.2.2-x, i.e. the epoch is 1, not 
220
    - can you provide such a package before patching
           devuan-packages/eudev ?
        - this would require testing on real-world/desktop systems.
        - we've tried a similar thing before, but it has not proven well
   - https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/eudev (suites/experimental
     branch)
   - (tremon) will do
   - so you will take over maintainership?
   - if that's what it takes -- I want to at least try :)
   - parazyd and I have made the latest releases. Do you feel strongly
     for doing this?
   - ideally, I don't want packages to be maintained by individuals. But
     if I am asked to contribute, I will try
   - parazyd you decide
       - feel free to submit patches :)
* will attend, but leave early

### flibbertgibbet
* will attend for some of the session
* fod wiki upgraded to latest version

## TODO: Add discussion items here
   * Decide name for the "LEAD group"
      - CTTE - jaromil
      - Devuan Steering Committee (DSC) - John Franklin
      - Caretakers (CT) - golinux (+)(+)
      - Interim Devuan Executive Committee (IDEC) - Chanku
      - Loyal Order of Devuan Poobahs (LODP) - blinkdog
        (golinux) will be voted on by the CTTE

   * Decide final configuration of the CTTE.
      - compromise proposed by golinux.  Rejected by jaromil
    * jaromil and parazyd (sharing one Dyne vote)
    * Centurion_Dan
    * KatolaZ
    * rrq
         * Evilham
           (golinux) note that the vote sharing was initially conceived 
as
            a way  to include 6 people within the 5 person structure
            originally suggested.

      - New options proposed by golinux
     1.  Either jaromil or parazyd step aside  (response below)
     2.  We expand the CTTE to 6  (0 votes)
     3.  We expand the CTTE to 7 by adding fsmithred into the
               mix (2 votes)

   - Evilham's comments on the new options:
       1. Would be OK if parazyd is guaranteed to have access to anything
           he needs. 4/5 majority needed to avoid the "51% phenomenon"
     (parazyd also agrees with this)
          (golinux) With parazyd's agreement, this option is identical to 
the
          one proposed by Centurion_Dan below
       2. Is no good, it can lead to perfectly split opinions and is not 
much
           better than current state of affairs.
       3. Would also be good, with 5/7 majority to avoid the "51%
           phenomenon".

   - Dan's proposal
      * leadership group members
      - jaromil
      - Centurion_Dan
      - KatolaZ
      - rrq
      - Evilham
              * leadership group chooses it's own name.
                (golinux) see choices above.
              * (golinux) this would allow parazyd to do what he does 
best -
                 write beautiful code rather than be saddled with
                 'committee' stuff
              * (blinkdog) add a timeline to revisit this committee?
                 (ascii release + 1 month, after 1 year, other?)
   * Open or restricted communication?
     - (golinux) Open discussions will continue as now
   * Is attendance at meetings important?
     - Yes!  A good time was had by all.