On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 01:29:23 -0700
Rick Moen <rick@???> wrote:

> Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (arnt@???):
> > Simon Walter writes:
> >
> >> Oh the insolence. Amazing. "You're holding it wrong" comes to
> >> mind. There is this guy named Lennart who might agree with you.
> >
> > Quite likely he might, he's not stupid after all. And I agree too:
> > Multiseat is unimportant, barely significant. The price of
> > computers has dropped enough that the ones with UIs are now
> > personal devices.
>
> Might be obvious, but just mentioning: 'Multiseat' (GNOME/system
> implementation of which proximately caused the systemd-logind
> omnishambles of several years ago) needs to be distinguished from
> multiuser.
>
> Unix has been inherently, by design, _multiuser_ since its beginning,
> and I for one would be quite sad if my Linux servers were suddenly
> 'personal devices': E.g., a Web / SMTPd / ftpd / sshd / rsyncd /
> NTPd server like the one in my garage suddenly failing to serve
> remote users would be a misfortune.
>
> I have to confess that I personally didn't understand how multiseat
> differs from multiuser on Linux until quite recently. Pro bono
> publico: It concerns simultaneous _local_ users. The Linux kernel[1]
> can, unaided, make _only one_ (local) virtual terminal active at a
> time. Sure, you can (e.g.) have one X11 server attached to /dev/tty7
> and another to /dev/tty8, but it turns out that any time one's
> active, the other can't be -- even if two physical sets of console
> hardware are attached. So, multiseat is, in short, a system software
> elaboration to fix that.
>
> This missing kernel functionality isn't important to either you, Simon
> Walter, or me, but it's a genuine limitation nonetheless, and there's
> nothing wrong _per se_ with offering ways around that limitation.
> Note that systemd-consoled is not the only candidate: kmscon
> preceded it, albeit development is currently stalled.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kmscon
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiseat_configuration#GNU.2FLinux also
> mentions several other current implementations.
>
> So, multiseat is _not_ a systemd invention, nor a systemd monopoly.
>
> Latter page mentions 'Multiseat setups are great for schools,
> libraries, and family computers.' Arguably true, _maybe_. Depends
> on the economics of additional consoles versus extra complete
> computers, I guess. I enjoyed using minicomputers during high
> school: A modern revival of that computing model using Linux might
> make money sense or might not, depending. Otherwise, I wouldn't say
> today that it'll necessarily be 'unimportant' in years to come.

Where does Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP, http://www.ltsp.org/)
fit into this discussion? IIRC LTSP existed long before systemd, and
before kmscon too.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt 
July 2016 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
     of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques