Will you attack Amir personally on every thread he intervenes just because
you don't like each other? That would be really annoying.

On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:00 PM, Özer Tayiz <otayiz@???> wrote:

> Quoting Amir:
> "This anarchist idea of rejecting the system. Of removing ourselves from
> the mechanisms of power, is simply an isolation of anarchist politics
> from civilization. For anarchists to seize power, they need to be
> engaging with the body politic and thinking how they can seize cities
> and towns under their control."
>
> *lol* could you possibly be more in self-conflict? State power is monopoly
> on initiation of violence. Electoral politics is a popularity contest to
> see who gets to use that power of violence. If you do join the race of
> politics, by definition, you are bidding to be at the top of a violent,
> centralized hierarchy, of initiation of violence.
>
> If you agree with non-aggression principle, you would want nothing to do
> with the state or politics. Which is inherently violent.
>
> Thank you for outing yourself as a statist, while calling yourself
> anarchist.
>
> "For anarchists to seize power" *lol*
>
> You are a power hungry statist. No true anarchist would seek power over
> others.
>
> I have only power over my own life, and I have no interest in ruling
> others. No rulers, no slaves.
>
> As long as there is something called a ruling class, a "government", it
> doesn't matter if the ruler is more lenient to the slaves.
>
> Master-slave relationship is still there.
>
> Slavery will end when people stop demanding "government" or someone else
> to solve their own problems. And when individuals take %100 full
> responsibility of their own lives.
>
> If no one votes, no one applies to a government job, no one files for
> taxes or licenses, no one feels the "duty" to obey any outside "authority"
> government cannot sustain itself. It will collapse anyways. It is a
> self-conflicting, destructive force.
>
> The closest thing actually exists to what you are describing is, the
> libertarian party. They want a little bit less slavery, a little bit less
> whipping, a little more food for the slaves, change the system from within,
> incrementally, but never the total end of master-slave relationship.
>
> See how successful that approach is (or rather it is not) in any country.
>
> Your delusion is: "If an Anarchist was a King, everything would be
> better".
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0HtWSlFCAQ
>
> On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 5:19 AM, Amir <amir@???> wrote:
>
>> Some anarchists reject electoral politics but that's a mistake. Whether
>> we use it or not, it exists all the same.
>>
>> The same argument about law exists- should we participate or is our use
>> of law, an innate acceptance or form of compliance to a system we want
>> to see replaced or destroyed.
>>
>> Well these things both exist, and it's a mistake not to use or engage
>> with them. They are alternative forms of political power that we can use
>> for furthering anarchist political objectives.
>>
>> But when we talk about electoral politics, what is the aim? Is it true
>> seizing of the political arms of power, or symbolic acts - non-violent
>> propagandas of the deed?
>>
>> Within a greater discourse or political plan, symbolic acts are powerful
>> for pushing towards an objective but only so long as that political base
>> exists which can take advantage of the shift or movement.
>>
>> No such thing currently exists.
>>
>> If instead we talk about seizing political power, it's insightful to
>> consider the works of Murray Bookchin, especially his overview of
>> libertarian muncipalism.
>>
>> As a revolutionary anarchist, I am interested in the path to political
>> power, not personal aesthetic changes to look or feel like an anarchist.
>> I want all of society to live under anarchism.
>>
>> We need to think about political power and re-think the old strategies
>> that evidently are not working. The work of groups like Iceland's PP,
>> Podemos, Barcelona en-Comu and HDP (Turkey) are refreshing. What's
>> interesting is that HDP are also following the political programme of
>> Bookchin's libertarian municipalism.
>>
>> This anarchist idea of rejecting the system. Of removing ourselves from
>> the mechanisms of power, is simply an isolation of anarchist politics
>> from civilization. For anarchists to seize power, they need to be
>> engaging with the body politic and thinking how they can seize cities
>> and towns under their control.
>>
>> It's interesting that some Anon's have decided to make a political party
>> but it's executed poorly. Imagine instead if there was a real organized
>> movement that aimed to get elected locally in small towns across the US,
>> that together form a mutual federation.
>>
>> A really important point: electoral politics is not a substitute for
>> real politics. Bookchin tells us that people develop politically through
>> the struggle. Electoral politics is a tool, but should always remain
>> subservient to the wider movement.
>>
>> What should this wider movement look like?
>>
>> Well it's clear that the west is suffering a moral and philosophical
>> deficiency. There can be no organized political movement that
>> realistically overturns the social conditions of our life without a
>> serious inquiry into political philosophers like Nietzsche. And this
>> revolutionary force would have to be disciplined and dedicate their
>> lives to the cause.
>>
>> This is the only way to provide the other path to the alt-right. It's
>> also clear that we need to steal some of their messaging and ideas and
>> incorporate it into our own coherent ideological system.
>>
>>
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>>
>
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