On Mon, 16 May 2016 08:26:11 -0500
dev <devuan.2@???> wrote:

> On 05/16/2016 05:12 AM, Jaromil wrote:
> > To all those who think this and other similar approaches may
> > invalidate the need of our fork: please consider we are not just
> > forking Debian because of systemd, but because the people who have
> > taken over the leadership of that distro have betrayed its mandate,
> > shown no respect of its Constitution and offer no reliability
> > anymore for any reasonable professional use of Debian.
>
> Very well spoken. Debian leadership has demonstrated it's disinterest
> in remaining "Free". There is another motive driving Debian
> development now and Systemd will end up being the core of Debian. To
> remove it will only mean uninstalling the entirety of the distro
> itself.

What I'm about to say is barely germane to what you two both said, but
I'll say it anyway.

I *never* felt comfortable in the Debian community, even before the
"systemd thing". Those people were mean. They were arrogant. I'm not
talking about the DDs, I'm talking of the rank and file. Never has any
single mailing list generated so many entries in my .procmailrc. They'd
spend days and days on threads putting each other down for stuff having
nothing to do with Debian or Linux. They'd white-glove critique the
questioning of newbies who just needed to get their computers running.
They'd flame the daylights out of you, and then just before their
signature they'd say "Cheers". Saaaay whaaat?

They also had a grossly inflated sense of their technical prowess. They
thought they were Stephan Hawking and Ken Thompson all rolled into one.
And they'd let you know of their superiority, even if they had to make
provably false technical statements to do so.

With a community like that, the abyssal behavior of the leadership and
the DDs is quite understandable. The rot had started from the rank and
file. The 5 months between the time I started using Debian and the time
I knew about the systemd fiasco, I never felt part of the Debian
"team".

The moment I moved to the modular-debian list, whose members later
moved en-mass to dng, I felt at home. This was my team. Still is.

And I have this other opinion. In my opinion, the smart and
constructive minority of the Debian project moved over here, where
something new and needed is being done. I doubt the current vestiges of
the Debian project can long hold on: Even if they have the tech chops,
which is nowhere near certain, they lack the people skills.

In 1964 a guy named Dobie Gray sang a song called "I'm In With the In
Crowd." That's how I feel being part of Devuan.

SteveT

Steve Litt
May 2016 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century
http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21