On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 01:48:27AM -0500, Diego Saa wrote:
> Other than propaganda and market manipulation, I don't see many other
> methods with which you could influence bitcoin's demand.

I'd say this accounts for about half of the control mechanism.

> However, I wouldn't use the word "control" for it.
>
> Don't want to come through as a fundamentalist fanatic, but it seems to me
> that bitcoin is far too big and decentralized by now to be controllable by
> any entity in a very meaningful way. Wouldn't you say?

*bitcoin* is very centralized, because it takes capital to buy miners and
data centers, and it's more profitable to build a data center and put 14nm
sha-256 ASICs in it, and sell *control* of the data center to the highest
(dollar) bidder than it is to sell the asics. This is the other half of the
control vector.

If you have the effective unlimited ability to create money by giving college
students credit cards to buy bitcoin miners, you now have the final centralized
control noose around bitcoin's neck.

You just need to do some financial engineering to short the BTC price, wait
for some weakness in the market, exploit it with propaganda and fear of anti-
bitcoin legislation, and now you have turned the former legion of bitcoin
freedom-fighters into bitcoin debt-zombies who bought miners and now owe
you dollars. Ask yourself, can you buy a 14nm asic anywhere?

> Yes, powerful humans can probably slow down bitcoin's adoption, but I don't
> see an entity killing bitcoin any time soon (other than a civilization
> extinguishing asteroid, supernova, or something of the sort).

The powerful humans don't want to kill bitcoin, they want to control the
people using it. And they have done a damn good job setting up the systems
to control bitcoin users. Now altcoins on the other hand, are a little bit
harder.

> And yes, I just smoked weed... I'll probably regret having written in this
> state of mind in the near future...

My advice is move to a jurisdiction where you can legally grow and use your
own (or at least legally buy it), and buy potcoin. That has a far better
chance of getting some systemic change to happen than bitcoin does.

> Diego
> On Jun 9, 2015 9:23 PM, "Troy Benjegerdes" <hozer@???> wrote:
>
> > That's what 15% inflation is for.
> >
> > But we can't have that, can we, for Satoshi has spoken and limited
> > supply is the one true cryptocoin that we must all worship.
> >
> > I think if we really want to burn the system, it's going to require
> > a massive debt-strike until seigniorage is distributed as basic income
> > instead of to the banks that create more debt. Bitcoin is a shiny
> > deflationary distraction to keep us killing each other and feeding
> > the army of undeabtors.
> >
> > I'm only half trolling. Why is it everyone rallies around bitcoin
> > when there are far better money supply algorithms out there? The
> > point, to me, of cryptocurrencies is any damn fool can hack out another
> > altcoin.
> >
> > The question is: Is it simply a failure of imagination that we don't
> > see more demurrage currencies like freicoin, or an active psy-ops
> > and disinformation campaign by the dark lords of Debt, who by now
> > have complete control of the bitcoin price by controlling the demand?
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 09, 2015 at 06:06:02AM +0000, Amir Taaki wrote:
> > > why would you pay back your debt to a bunch of crook banks and thieves?
> > >
> > > borrow everything, buy bitcoins and declare bankruptcy all the way.
> > > burn the system to the ground.
> > >
> > > snakecharmr:
> > > >
> > > >> The problem with America is too many goddamn libertarians who turn
> > into communists the second
> > > >> someone else has something they don't.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Haha, well said. Everybody wants freedom for themselves. The tyrant is
> > > > just one who isn't willing to give it to anybody else.
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 06/08/2015 08:16 PM, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> > > >>> And the army of undeabtors has struck back..
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/06/08/lee_siegel_new_york_times_op_ed_is_this_the_worst_op_ed_ever_written_about.html
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Mon, Jun 08, 2015 at 10:55:22AM -0500, Troy Benjegerdes wrote:
> > > >>>> (this writing is best had after watching the Game of Thrones
> > episode 'Hardhome'[1])
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Why should one default and burn their student loans?
> > > >>>>
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/why-i-defaulted-on-my-student-loans.html?_r=0
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Student debt is the Night's king of our age. The more you battle to
> > pay it off, the stronger it becomes, turning your fallen friends into
> > undead wage-slaves.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> You cannot have a rational conversation with a wage slave, or most
> > anyone in debt, for the things they bought with it take over their lives.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> You must be willing to burn the debt and all the things that came
> > with it. But doing so alone is a fools errand, burning any path you may
> > have to live free, ensuring, at best, a free death, after which any
> > possessions you may still have will be raised from the dead to fight for
> > the Night's debt army
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> To be free, we must first be able to feed ourselves, educate
> > ourselves, and freely share both food and information. Burning debt is not
> > sufficient. We must plant seeds, and share the fruits of those seeds with
> > anyone who may be hungry. The only way to fight the deabt is with gifts of
> > abundant food, and the compost of the abundance after hunger is saited.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> [1]
> > http://www.techtimes.com/articles/57683/20150606/game-of-thrones-who-is-the-nights-king-and-is-he-a-stark.htm
> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > > >>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >
> > --
> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Troy Benjegerdes                 'da hozer'
> > hozer@???
> > 7 elements      earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul
> > grid.coop

> >

> >       Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel,
> >          nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash

> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
> >

> _______________________________________________
> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Benjegerdes                 'da hozer'                  hozer@???
7 elements      earth::water::air::fire::mind::spirit::soul        grid.coop

      Never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel,
         nor try buy a hacker who makes money by the megahash