eOn Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 12:00:41PM +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote:
>
> For what is worth - and at risk of adding fuel to the fire, but
> I am just voicing my impressions and you guys will do what you want
> with it:
>
> I have subscribed to this list five days ago, hoping to see technical
> discussions about how to design a distribution without systemd. I am
> the author of an alternative system (s6), and am interested in learning,
> among other things:
> - what systemd provides in today's distributions and needs replacing
> - what are the solutions chosen by devuan folks
>
> So far, in 5 days I've received about 100 messages, of which:
> - seven are of interest to me (the vdev part. I actually learned
> something, as I often do when Jude writes.)
> - more than one-third is the current meta discussion about the list
> -more than half of the rest is circlejerking or idle chatter.
>
> 7% is too low for me. Please don't suggest reader-side filters:
> - they are basically an admission of defeat in focusing the list's purpose
> - they still require writer-side effort, and they put burden on people
> who actually want to be cooperative.
>
> Honestly, I have nothing against circlejerking. It feels good, and I
> hate systemd as much as anyone here - probably more than most; so, seeing
> likeminded people is heartwarming. But my belief is that one of the main
> reasons systemd is winning is that its opponents spend too much energy
> talking about it and not enough designing alternatives - and so I'm here
> for action, not words.
>
> Please direct me to the place where the technical discussions are
> happening; if they're supposed to happen here, well, sorry but that's not
> an efficient working environment, and I'll find information by other means.

We do need two lists -- but it shouldn't be divided between developers
and users. It should be divided between technical and nontechnical.
This will not separate users from developers, which is allegedly what
happened to Debian.

-- hendrik

P.S. At the moment, we don't even have much in the way of users.