> -----Original Message-----
> From: Didier Kryn [mailto:kryn@in2p3.fr]
> Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2015 11:04 AM
> To: dng@???
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?
>

>      We all agree that Devuan was born to be systemd-free and this looks like a
> sustainable goal to begin with. But I understood this thread started with
> questioning the long term policy.

[T.J. Duchene] Nothing wrong with that. I'm just and only saying that if Devuan's goal is to release Devuan 1.0, then the best and most reliable QA process would be not to support anything related to systemd in the initial release. For the time being, system is out of the question. It can always be reevaluated in Devuan 1.5 or 2.0 but to bring "systemd support" up now is a distraction. The initial policy should be followed, and this should be tabled until after Devuan 1.0 is completed. It's all a question of follow-through. Devuan 1.0 is a critical thing, and the project has to "make good" and deliver; Devuan can't change policy without having to reconsider every piece of work already completed. I feel that is counterproductive.

>      However, the long term policy of Devuan can't be "We hate systemd and
> Lennart Poetering". Instead Devuan should advertize the reasons to reject
> software like systemd, in the form of  a set of rules for acceptability, in a
> sensible and attractive form, for users, developpers, and distros to easily
> share. I see these rules as an addendum to the definition of free software.

>
[T.J. Duchene] While I admit that seems to be the "flavor of the day" from some, I don't hate anyone. I don't have time to be petty; I have work to do. With respect to everyone, I simply do not care if they disagree with me or not, and I say so. That does not mean that I am unreasonable or won't admit when I am wrong.

>

>       This leaves no room for systemd-contaminated software, except if the
> systemd API can be replaced by  a do-otherwise/do-nothing stub.

[T.J. Duchene] Frankly, Didier, I think that that is inevitable that Devuan 2.0 (and after) will have to include a systemd shim or stub. Third party projects upstream are going to do whatever is in the best interests of their users, and asking them to do otherwise - that is unreasonable. The majority of their users have systemd, whether we personally like it or not. Some form of API support will be needed.

See you!
T.J.