so good.

On 1 Nov 2013, at 7:41 pm, Amir Taaki <genjix@???> wrote:

> > Santi narrated, I wrote & edited.
>
> On 01/11/13 19:39, Tristan Winters wrote:
>> Who wrote that part??? It?s fucking shit hot. The part about the
>> founding fathers, federation of states and local decision making
>> made me fist pump the air.
>>
>>
>> On 1 Nov 2013, at 6:17 pm, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>> wrote:
>>
>> did you read the section of the darkwallet.unsystem.net
>> <http://darkwallet.unsystem.net> called we dont have to cooperate
>> with control freaks?
>>
>> On 01/11/13 18:15, Jason King wrote:
>>>>> I don't think anyone is advocating explaining ourselves to
>>>>> the legacy power structure. And I also understand that IS
>>>>> what the Bitcoin Foundation is currently engaged in. My point
>>>>> is that is ultimately only detrimental to the bitcoin
>>>>> foundation. It is irrelevant to anything being done here. In
>>>>> fact, you can probably make the argument that the futility
>>>>> they participate in by engageing regulators is actually
>>>>> keeping the spotlight off all the other work being done.
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't have to be us vs them. It is my opinion that
>>>>> engaging in this manner only strengthen peoples view of the
>>>>> power they have. People don't rally against the irrelevant.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where as just doing what needs to be done, and concentrating
>>>>> on spreading the work that is being done, is more beneficial
>>>>> and productive than pointing fingers ever could be.
>>>>>
>>>>> They use fear. We don't have to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my .02btc
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 1, 2013 11:50 AM, "Cody R Wilson"
>>>>> <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm willing to write a longer piece for the magazine, an
>>>>> open letter, anything if that is what is called for. I know
>>>>> darkwallet.unsystem.net <http://darkwallet.unsystem.net>
>>>>> <http://darkwallet.unsystem.net> has more direct criticism,
>>>>> but the message in my video toward the foundation is toward a
>>>>> particular way of thinking- one featuring our old friend
>>>>> ideology.
>>>>>
>>>>> In talking about the foundation I visuals from Orson Welle's
>>>>> film adaption of Kafka's /The Trial/. Joseph K's chief
>>>>> naivete throughout his engagement with the state is his sense
>>>>> that he can both make a clear account of himself and his life
>>>>> and resolve his situation in a way that the process would
>>>>> understand as resolved.
>>>>>
>>>>> The beautiful and terrible irony is that it is K's earnest
>>>>> participation that renders him a more visible subject of
>>>>> power. No account matters. It is the cooperation, the desire
>>>>> for discipline, that leads to his execution.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this way I believe the video is gentle and honest in its
>>>>> criticism. Asking for permission from and trying to explain
>>>>> yourself to the legacy powers has only one end.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Amir Taaki
>>>>> <genjix@??? <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
>>>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Vitalik, this is the story we need to get out:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322483
>>>>>
>>>>> one of cooperation and mutual solidarity between competitors
>>>>> finding middle ground to make effective use of resources.
>>>>> this is the power and beauty of openness.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Jason, very solid argument. I'm not in favor of
>>>>>> burning bridges myself; there are many great people in the
>>>>>> foundation (eg. Elizabeth for one, and even Jon Matonis
>>>>>> has publicly written
>>>>> articles
>>>>>> praising System D on numerous occasions), and we should
>>>>>> work
>>>>> with them
>>>>>> to make the foundation better. I looked at the Dark Wallet
>>>>> thread inside
>>>>>> the foundation forums, and many people are excited about
>>>>>> it.
>>>>> There is
>>>>>> absolutely no reason why we need to reject potential
>>>>>> friends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will consider writing an article myself over the next
>>>>>> few
>>>>> days or
>>>>>> weeks, unless someone else wishes to take this
>>>>>> responsibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/01/2013 10:37 AM, Jason King wrote:
>>>>>>> To The Crew,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't get near enough time to add to the conversation
>>>>>>> here.
>>>>> That's
>>>>>> too bad, I am so in awe of the work that is being done
>>>>>> here
>>>>> and would
>>>>>> love to contribute more.
>>>>>>> I first want to congratulate everyone on the indiegogo
>>>>> campaign. The
>>>>>> initial showing for the fundraiser is quite impressive. I
>>>>>> have
>>>>> no doubt
>>>>>> you will exceed your financial goals on this. I donated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I can't help but feel you are sacrificing a much
>>>>>>> larger
>>>>> community
>>>>>> impact by not having a more plain words description of the
>>>>> benefits of
>>>>>> dark wallet. The video is beautiful, well constructed, and
>>>>> moving. It
>>>>>> does exactly what it was intended to do. I was moved, I
>>>>>> agree
>>>>> with it's
>>>>>> message...I am also /already on this mailing list. /
>>>>>>> / / The indiegogo campaign has 133 contributors, that is
>>>>>>> not a
>>>>> battalion,
>>>>>> much less an army. And my feeling is that if the
>>>>>> contributor
>>>>> list was
>>>>>> public I would already be familiar with most of the names
>>>>>> on
>>>>> the list.
>>>>>> People that are already, publicly, aligned with the goals
>>>>> stated by this
>>>>>> campaign. Dark Wallet and the other ideals championed by
>>>>>> this
>>>>> group are
>>>>>> important and necessary to EVERYBODY. Even the people that
>>>>> don't know it
>>>>>> yet. And the marketing campaign, in it's current form, is
>>>>>> not
>>>>> digestible
>>>>>> to a large part of the community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe that's the plan. Maybe you are trying to weed out
>>>>>>> certain
>>>>>> classes. But that, seems at odds with the ideals expressed
>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not saying to stop what you are doing, at all. I'm
>>>>>>> saying
>>>>> I think
>>>>>> there is a great force multiplier to be had by having an
>>>>> additional,
>>>>>> stripped down version of the message that focuses on just
>>>>>> the
>>>>> technical
>>>>>> benefits of the platform as it is being proposed. The
>>>>>> benefits are obvious. They do not need political overtone,
>>>>>> fear, or anarchist galvanization to stand on their own
>>>>>> merits.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why wouldn't you want trustless mixing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why wouldn't you want to have alternative full wallet
>>>>> implementations
>>>>>> free of qt and bitcoind?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why wouldn't you want a more distributed group of
>>>>>>> developers
>>>>> working
>>>>>> on Bitcoin?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Isn't the whole point of Bitcoin to do away with single
>>>>>>> point of failure?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These ideas are powerful, very powerful. The work you
>>>>>>> are
>>>>> doing IS THE
>>>>>> REVOLUTION. The revolution does not need a trumpeter next
>>>>>> to
>>>>> it saying,
>>>>>> YO DAWG THIS IS THE REVOLUTION.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I propose, sometime in the next few weeks, before the
>>>>> campaign ends,
>>>>>> you run a piece entitled "Shedding Light on Dark Wallet"
>>>>>> that just explains all the benefits that Dark Wallet can
>>>>>> offer, in very
>>>>> plain
>>>>>> terms. Just a clean, well put together, article or video
>>>>>> that
>>>>> explains
>>>>>> the offering you are building. Completely free of any
>>>>>> other
>>>>> ancillary
>>>>>> benefit or protection this technology may offer. I think
>>>>>> you
>>>>> will be
>>>>>> shocked at how well something like that will be received.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When you have been breathing smog, oxygen needs no hype
>>>>>>> man.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And you say you need work, not ideas. If you guys are
>>>>> interested in
>>>>>> putting something like that together, I would be privileged
>>>>>> to
>>>>> help
>>>>>> create it and promote it. And I think it will probably
>>>>>> shake a
>>>>> few more
>>>>>> talented workers out of the woodwork.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the end of the day, do we want...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To say fuck the US? Or to build the tools that will
>>>>>>> protect
>>>>> everyone
>>>>>> from their grasp?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To say fuck the Bitcoin Foundation? Or use them as a
>>>>>>> speed
>>>>> bump to
>>>>>> dance with regulators, while we build the infrastructure
>>>>>> that
>>>>> makes the
>>>>>> regulators and the foundation irrelevant?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To say this world is fucked? Or do the work that makes
>>>>>>> it better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I realize I juxtaposed "you" and "we" a lot here. That's
>>>>> because I
>>>>>> recognize that I have really done nothing to push this
>>>>>> forward
>>>>> so far,
>>>>>> "you" have. But I feel so close to the ideal here, it's
>>>>>> hard
>>>>> to not see
>>>>>> myself in it. I hope you guys will forgive me grammar
>>>>> indiscretions. I
>>>>>> am in awe of you all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you so much for what you do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason King Sean's Outpost
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Tristan Winters
>>>>>> <tristan_winters@???
>>>>> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com>
>>>>> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are referring to this:
>>>>>> http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The foundation did not get 9 million dollars. But as soon
>>>>>>> as the above company got VC backed, they became a
>>>>>> "Gold Member" of the foundation.
>>>>>>> And the foundation got a large number of Bitcoins in
>>>>>>> that
>>>>> way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, this has clearly touched a nerve in the
>>>>> community. The
>>>>>> crowd-funding 24hr response shows that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1 Nov 2013, at 2:25 pm, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
>>>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
>>>>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this article is head in the clouds laa dee da that
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>> not fit
>>>>>> the reality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> first of all bitcoin foundation should not be involved
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>> development of
>>>>>>>> bitcoin if that are interacting with the state. that
>>>>> means not
>>>>>> paying
>>>>>>>> salaries to people who exert undue influence over the
>>>>> protocol.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> if they choose to continue to be involved with bitcoin
>>>>>> development then
>>>>>>>> they should also support dark wallet, electrum, and
>>>>> hive (which
>>>>>> are now
>>>>>>>> combining as one project pooling our efforts).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> if they want to be involved in development, then the
>>>>> role should
>>>>>> be in
>>>>>>>> establishing a neutral space (which i have not seen be
>>>>> done and
>>>>>> have no
>>>>>>>> confidence will be done). i want to see more stick.
>>>>> I've seen
>>>>>> some cliquey
>>>>>>>> and sneaky behaviour coming from bitcoind devs.
>>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>> instances of
>>>>>>>> top-down commands (evoking that power when not
>>>>> neccessary) or
>>>>>> shutting
>>>>>>>> down debate over contentious issues.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> twice i contacted the foundation over issues where I
>>>>> was being
>>>>>> unfairly
>>>>>>>> placed at a disadvantage as a dev because of office
>>>>> politics
>>>>>> (being taken
>>>>>>>> off mailing lists .etc) but they refused to intervene.
>>>>> they are
>>>>>> paying
>>>>>>>> salaries of devs. I would have words if someone I was
>>>>> working
>>>>>> with was
>>>>>>>> acting like a cunt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I told this to elizabeth already, and she's a force
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>> good
>>>>>> working on
>>>>>>>> bitcoin with pure motives.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> from a journalist friend of ours. he sent me this
>>>>> yesterday:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just got a call from the bitcoin foundation. They
>>>>> wouldn't go
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>> record to comment on the article but just kept
>>>>>>>>> telling
>>>>> me "off
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> record" that you lot have no credibility and that a
>>>>> much better
>>>>>> story is
>>>>>>>>> some venture capitalist yesterday investing $9m in
>>>>> bitcoin...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can't stop laughing. ok, where is this 9 million. what
>>>>> is it
>>>>>> doing? i
>>>>>>>> haven't seen any of it yet. they have all the
>>>>>>>> resources,
>>>>>> leigitimacy and
>>>>>>>> attention but what have they done. they are lost in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> politics.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we have donations from many, not 1 rich fascist. how
>>>>> will this 9
>>>>>> million
>>>>>>>> be used. the money from the community will go far, be
>>>>> collectively
>>>>>>>> managed in a multisig and be used well. we don't waste
>>>>> 9 million
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> lawyers giving to people part of the state apparatus.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> why don't they go on record and back up their words?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> godspeed :) today we finally forced an important issue
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>> bitcoin to the
>>>>>>>> forefront. this is where we will make our stand for
>>>>> freedom and
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> values. great job cody for his mastermind work here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The video is so fucken crazy. Thank God you're a
>>>>>>>>> force
>>>>> for good.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Another time and place you could work for the
>>>>>>>>> propaganda
>>>>>> ministry of some
>>>>>>>>> Eastern Block country. :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check this out also, it's a balanced piece doing the
>>>>> rounds:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://techliberation.com/2013/10/31/bitcoin-is-going-mainstream-here-is-why-cypherpunks-shouldnt-worry/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
> On 1 Nov 2013, at 2:01 pm, Cody R Wilson
>>>>> <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu
>>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to thank everyone on this list especially
>>>>> for the
>>>>>> tremendous
>>>>>>>>>> response the Dark Wallet campaign received
>>>>>>>>>> yesterday.
>>>>> Within
>>>>>> 24 hours we
>>>>>>>>>> received just over 25k USD in combined
>>>>>>>>>> contributions.
>>>>> Share
>>>>>> the video if
>>>>>>>>>> you haven't already. It seems to be popularizing
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>> spirit of
>>>>>> crypto.
>>>>>>>>>> There is demand!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Amir Taaki
>>>>> <genjix@??? <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
>>>>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We're doing a crowd funding campaign for DarkWallet soon.
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>> looking
>>>>>>> for any material (especially from people here) that we
>>>>>>> can
>>>>> weave into
>>>>>>> a tapestry of our vision and ideals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How we are thinking, what we are working towards, what
>>>>> interests us, ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Articles, videos, images, forum posts, ... anything. We
>>>>>>> want to present something to the people
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * It's not only about the 'black market' but tools for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>> people, the
>>>>>>> limitations and the monopoly of money / economy. * Tools
>>>>>>> like DarkWallet are your own financial system, a free
>>>>> financial
>>>>>>> system. * It's important to talk about independence and
>>>>>>> community
>>>>> (organising
>>>>>>> together). * Everything from petrol, food, computers,
>>>>>>> even our health is manipulated. * Finance is one aspect,
>>>>>>> but we need to take back control of more things. * Silk
>>>>>>> Road: $1.2 billion market, 2 murders, >2 years. DPR is
>>>>> a hero.
>>>>>>> Compare that with something like producing rice and all
>>>>>>> the
>>>>> people
>>>>>>> that die. * More simply: ** Bitcoin = amazing scifi. The
>>>>>>> blockchain is incredible. ** No technical limitations.
>>>>>>> The limitations are human
>>>>> limitations.
>>>>>>> ** We will have all the tools, but we need the community.
>>>>>>> * Bitcoin Foundation has a lot of money, all the
>>>>>>> legitimacy
>>>>> but they do
>>>>>>> nothing. They are lost in the politics, but aren't
>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>> of serving
>>>>>>> the people. * We are here now working with the future in
>>>>>>> mind. These
>>>>> things take
>>>>>>> time and are slow. Maybe 5 years from now all these
>>>>>>> crazy
>>>>> concepts
>>>>>>> become reality. ** Bitcoin is still young. ** It's also
>>>>>>> about the internet. ** Bitcoin is something new but
>>>>>>> immensely powerful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
> - -- Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cody R. Wilson codywilson@???
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu
>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The University of Texas School of Law Class of
>>>>>>>>>> 2014
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>>>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>>>>>> list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>>>>> list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> - -- Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Cody R. Wilson codywilson@???
>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>>>>>
>>>>> The University of Texas School of Law Class of 2014
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>>>>> list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>>> list: http://unsystem.net
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>> list: http://unsystem.net
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>
>
> - --
> Abolish the NSA
> > _______________________________________________
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