ok, I've been listening to the community and the questions they ask.
so tried to arrange the info that way. still looking for improvements
if you can give me pithy instructions.

On 01/11/13 18:23, Jason King wrote:
> Amir,
>
> I did, and it is beautiful.
>
> On Nov 1, 2013 12:17 PM, "Amir Taaki" <genjix@???
> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>> wrote:
>
> did you read the section of the darkwallet.unsystem.net
> <http://darkwallet.unsystem.net> called we dont have to cooperate
> with control freaks?
>
> On 01/11/13 18:15, Jason King wrote:
>> I don't think anyone is advocating explaining ourselves to the
>> legacy power structure. And I also understand that IS what the
>> Bitcoin Foundation is currently engaged in. My point is that is
>> ultimately only detrimental to the bitcoin foundation. It is
>> irrelevant to anything being done here. In fact, you can
>> probably make the argument that the futility they participate in
>> by engageing regulators is actually keeping the spotlight off all
>> the other work being done.
>
>> It doesn't have to be us vs them. It is my opinion that engaging
>> in this manner only strengthen peoples view of the power they
>> have. People don't rally against the irrelevant.
>
>> Where as just doing what needs to be done, and concentrating on
>> spreading the work that is being done, is more beneficial and
>> productive than pointing fingers ever could be.
>
>> They use fear. We don't have to.
>
>> Just my .02btc
>
>> Jason
>
>> On Nov 1, 2013 11:50 AM, "Cody R Wilson" <codywilson@???
> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>>
>> wrote:
>
>> All,
>
>> I'm willing to write a longer piece for the magazine, an open
>> letter, anything if that is what is called for. I know
>> darkwallet.unsystem.net <http://darkwallet.unsystem.net>
> <http://darkwallet.unsystem.net> has more
>> direct criticism, but the message in my video toward the
>> foundation is toward a particular way of thinking- one featuring
>> our old friend ideology.
>
>> In talking about the foundation I visuals from Orson Welle's
>> film adaption of Kafka's /The Trial/. Joseph K's chief naivete
>> throughout his engagement with the state is his sense that he
>> can both make a clear account of himself and his life and resolve
>> his situation in a way that the process would understand as
>> resolved.
>
>> The beautiful and terrible irony is that it is K's earnest
>> participation that renders him a more visible subject of power.
>> No account matters. It is the cooperation, the desire for
>> discipline, that leads to his execution.
>
>> In this way I believe the video is gentle and honest in its
>> criticism. Asking for permission from and trying to explain
>> yourself to the legacy powers has only one end.
>
>
>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>> wrote:
>
>> Vitalik, this is the story we need to get out:
>
>> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322483
>
>> one of cooperation and mutual solidarity between competitors
>> finding middle ground to make effective use of resources. this
>> is the power and beauty of openness.
>
>>> Thank you Jason, very solid argument. I'm not in favor of
>>> burning bridges myself; there are many great people in the
>>> foundation (eg. Elizabeth for one, and even Jon Matonis has
>>> publicly written
>> articles
>>> praising System D on numerous occasions), and we should work
>> with them
>>> to make the foundation better. I looked at the Dark Wallet
>> thread inside
>>> the foundation forums, and many people are excited about it.
>> There is
>>> absolutely no reason why we need to reject potential friends.
>>>
>>> I will consider writing an article myself over the next few
>> days or
>>> weeks, unless someone else wishes to take this responsibility.
>>>
>>> On 11/01/2013 10:37 AM, Jason King wrote:
>>>> To The Crew,
>>>>
>>>> I don't get near enough time to add to the conversation
>>>> here.
>> That's
>>> too bad, I am so in awe of the work that is being done here
>> and would
>>> love to contribute more.
>>>> I first want to congratulate everyone on the indiegogo
>> campaign. The
>>> initial showing for the fundraiser is quite impressive. I have
>> no doubt
>>> you will exceed your financial goals on this. I donated.
>>>>
>>>> But I can't help but feel you are sacrificing a much larger
>> community
>>> impact by not having a more plain words description of the
>> benefits of
>>> dark wallet. The video is beautiful, well constructed, and
>> moving. It
>>> does exactly what it was intended to do. I was moved, I agree
>> with it's
>>> message...I am also /already on this mailing list. /
>>>> / / The indiegogo campaign has 133 contributors, that is not
>>>> a
>> battalion,
>>> much less an army. And my feeling is that if the contributor
>> list was
>>> public I would already be familiar with most of the names on
>> the list.
>>> People that are already, publicly, aligned with the goals
>> stated by this
>>> campaign. Dark Wallet and the other ideals championed by this
>> group are
>>> important and necessary to EVERYBODY. Even the people that
>> don't know it
>>> yet. And the marketing campaign, in it's current form, is not
>> digestible
>>> to a large part of the community.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe that's the plan. Maybe you are trying to weed out
>>>> certain
>>> classes. But that, seems at odds with the ideals expressed
>>> here.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying to stop what you are doing, at all. I'm
>>>> saying
>> I think
>>> there is a great force multiplier to be had by having an
>> additional,
>>> stripped down version of the message that focuses on just the
>> technical
>>> benefits of the platform as it is being proposed. The benefits
>>> are obvious. They do not need political overtone, fear, or
>>> anarchist galvanization to stand on their own merits.
>>>>
>>>> Why wouldn't you want trustless mixing?
>>>>
>>>> Why wouldn't you want to have alternative full wallet
>> implementations
>>> free of qt and bitcoind?
>>>>
>>>> Why wouldn't you want a more distributed group of developers
>> working
>>> on Bitcoin?
>>>>
>>>> Isn't the whole point of Bitcoin to do away with single
>>>> point of failure?
>>>>
>>>> These ideas are powerful, very powerful. The work you are
>> doing IS THE
>>> REVOLUTION. The revolution does not need a trumpeter next to
>> it saying,
>>> YO DAWG THIS IS THE REVOLUTION.
>>>>
>>>> I propose, sometime in the next few weeks, before the
>> campaign ends,
>>> you run a piece entitled "Shedding Light on Dark Wallet" that
>>> just explains all the benefits that Dark Wallet can offer, in
>>> very
>> plain
>>> terms. Just a clean, well put together, article or video that
>> explains
>>> the offering you are building. Completely free of any other
>> ancillary
>>> benefit or protection this technology may offer. I think you
>> will be
>>> shocked at how well something like that will be received.
>>>>
>>>> When you have been breathing smog, oxygen needs no hype man.
>>>>
>>>> And you say you need work, not ideas. If you guys are
>> interested in
>>> putting something like that together, I would be privileged to
>> help
>>> create it and promote it. And I think it will probably shake a
>> few more
>>> talented workers out of the woodwork.
>>>>
>>>> At the end of the day, do we want...
>>>>
>>>> To say fuck the US? Or to build the tools that will protect
>> everyone
>>> from their grasp?
>>>>
>>>> To say fuck the Bitcoin Foundation? Or use them as a speed
>> bump to
>>> dance with regulators, while we build the infrastructure that
>> makes the
>>> regulators and the foundation irrelevant?
>>>>
>>>> To say this world is fucked? Or do the work that makes it
>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I realize I juxtaposed "you" and "we" a lot here. That's
>> because I
>>> recognize that I have really done nothing to push this forward
>> so far,
>>> "you" have. But I feel so close to the ideal here, it's hard
>> to not see
>>> myself in it. I hope you guys will forgive me grammar
>> indiscretions. I
>>> am in awe of you all.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much for what you do.
>>>>
>>>> Jason King Sean's Outpost
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Tristan Winters
>>> <tristan_winters@???
>>> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com>
>> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com
> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com>>
>> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com
> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com>
>> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com
> <mailto:tristan_winters@hotmail.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They are referring to this:
>>> http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
>>>>
>>>> The foundation did not get 9 million dollars. But as soon as
>>>> the above company got VC backed, they became a
>>> "Gold Member" of the foundation.
>>>> And the foundation got a large number of Bitcoins in that
>> way.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, this has clearly touched a nerve in the
>> community. The
>>> crowd-funding 24hr response shows that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1 Nov 2013, at 2:25 pm, Amir Taaki <genjix@???
> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>
>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> this article is head in the clouds laa dee da that does
>> not fit
>>> the reality.
>>>>>
>>>>> first of all bitcoin foundation should not be involved in
>>> development of
>>>>> bitcoin if that are interacting with the state. that
>> means not
>>> paying
>>>>> salaries to people who exert undue influence over the
>> protocol.
>>>>>
>>>>> if they choose to continue to be involved with bitcoin
>>> development then
>>>>> they should also support dark wallet, electrum, and
>> hive (which
>>> are now
>>>>> combining as one project pooling our efforts).
>>>>>
>>>>> if they want to be involved in development, then the
>> role should
>>> be in
>>>>> establishing a neutral space (which i have not seen be
>> done and
>>> have no
>>>>> confidence will be done). i want to see more stick.
>> I've seen
>>> some cliquey
>>>>> and sneaky behaviour coming from bitcoind devs. multiple
>>> instances of
>>>>> top-down commands (evoking that power when not
>> neccessary) or
>>> shutting
>>>>> down debate over contentious issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> twice i contacted the foundation over issues where I
>> was being
>>> unfairly
>>>>> placed at a disadvantage as a dev because of office
>> politics
>>> (being taken
>>>>> off mailing lists .etc) but they refused to intervene.
>> they are
>>> paying
>>>>> salaries of devs. I would have words if someone I was
>> working
>>> with was
>>>>> acting like a cunt.
>>>>>
>>>>> I told this to elizabeth already, and she's a force for
>> good
>>> working on
>>>>> bitcoin with pure motives.
>>>>>
>>>>> from a journalist friend of ours. he sent me this
>> yesterday:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Just got a call from the bitcoin foundation. They
>> wouldn't go
>>> on the
>>>>>> record to comment on the article but just kept telling
>> me "off
>>>> the
>>>>>> record" that you lot have no credibility and that a
>> much better
>>> story is
>>>>>> some venture capitalist yesterday investing $9m in
>> bitcoin...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> can't stop laughing. ok, where is this 9 million. what
>> is it
>>> doing? i
>>>>> haven't seen any of it yet. they have all the resources,
>>> leigitimacy and
>>>>> attention but what have they done. they are lost in the
>> politics.
>>>>>
>>>>> we have donations from many, not 1 rich fascist. how
>> will this 9
>>> million
>>>>> be used. the money from the community will go far, be
>> collectively
>>>>> managed in a multisig and be used well. we don't waste
>> 9 million
>>>> on
>>>>> lawyers giving to people part of the state apparatus.
>>>>>
>>>>> why don't they go on record and back up their words?
>>>>>
>>>>> godspeed :) today we finally forced an important issue in
>>> bitcoin to the
>>>>> forefront. this is where we will make our stand for
>> freedom and
>>>> our
>>>>> values. great job cody for his mastermind work here.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The video is so fucken crazy. Thank God you're a force
>> for good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another time and place you could work for the propaganda
>>> ministry of some
>>>>>> Eastern Block country. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check this out also, it's a balanced piece doing the
>> rounds:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>
> http://techliberation.com/2013/10/31/bitcoin-is-going-mainstream-here-is-why-cypherpunks-shouldnt-worry/
>
>
>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1 Nov 2013, at 2:01 pm, Cody R Wilson
>> <codywilson@??? <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>
>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>>>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd like to thank everyone on this list especially
>> for the
>>> tremendous
>>>>>>> response the Dark Wallet campaign received yesterday.
>> Within
>>> 24 hours we
>>>>>>> received just over 25k USD in combined contributions.
>> Share
>>> the video if
>>>>>>> you haven't already. It seems to be popularizing the
>> spirit of
>>> crypto.
>>>>>>> There is demand!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Amir Taaki
>> <genjix@??? <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>
>>> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>
> <mailto:genjix@riseup.net <mailto:genjix@riseup.net>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> We're doing a crowd funding campaign for DarkWallet soon.
>>>> I'm
>> looking
>>>> for any material (especially from people here) that we can
>> weave into
>>>> a tapestry of our vision and ideals.
>>>>
>>>> How we are thinking, what we are working towards, what
>> interests us, ...
>>>>
>>>> Articles, videos, images, forum posts, ... anything. We want
>>>> to present something to the people
>>>>
>>>> * It's not only about the 'black market' but tools for the
>> people, the
>>>> limitations and the monopoly of money / economy. * Tools
>>>> like DarkWallet are your own financial system, a free
>> financial
>>>> system. * It's important to talk about independence and
>>>> community
>> (organising
>>>> together). * Everything from petrol, food, computers, even
>>>> our health is manipulated. * Finance is one aspect, but we
>>>> need to take back control of more things. * Silk Road: $1.2
>>>> billion market, 2 murders, >2 years. DPR is
>> a hero.
>>>> Compare that with something like producing rice and all the
>> people
>>>> that die. * More simply: ** Bitcoin = amazing scifi. The
>>>> blockchain is incredible. ** No technical limitations. The
>>>> limitations are human
>> limitations.
>>>> ** We will have all the tools, but we need the community. *
>>>> Bitcoin Foundation has a lot of money, all the legitimacy
>> but they do
>>>> nothing. They are lost in the politics, but aren't thinking
>> of serving
>>>> the people. * We are here now working with the future in
>>>> mind. These
>> things take
>>>> time and are slow. Maybe 5 years from now all these crazy
>> concepts
>>>> become reality. ** Bitcoin is still young. ** It's also
>>>> about the internet. ** Bitcoin is something new but
>>>> immensely powerful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Sincerely,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cody R. Wilson codywilson@???
> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
>>>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu
>>>>>>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>
> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The University of Texas School of Law Class of 2014
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>>>>
>>>>
>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM
>>> mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>
>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>> list: http://unsystem.net
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
>
>
>> -- Sincerely,
>
>> Cody R. Wilson codywilson@???
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu
>> <mailto:codywilson@utexas.edu>>
>
>> The University of Texas School of Law Class of 2014
>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>> list: http://unsystem.net
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
>> list: http://unsystem.net
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
> list: http://unsystem.net
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ unSYSTEM mailing
> list: http://unsystem.net
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>

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