On Sat, Sep 28, 2024 at 4:40 PM Wm. Moss via Dng <dng@???> wrote:

> On 9/28/24 17:04, R A Montante, Ph.D. via Dng wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>> I would recommend:
> >>>
> >>> The C Programming Language (sometimes termed K&R, after its authors'
> >>> initials) is a computer programming book written by Brian Kernighan
> >>> and Dennis Ritchie
> >> No no no no NO! The preceding book is the ultimate reference, but it's
> >> horrible to learn from. I know: I tried for a year to learn from K&R
> >> version 1, and couldn't. Then I got something called "The C Puzzle
> >> Book", and learned. But these days, with the web, I don't think a book
> >> is necessary except for telling you best practices, but initial
> >> learning is best done without worrying about best practices.
> >>
> >> Speaking of best practices, IIRC the K&R code examples are terse and
> >> cute but horribly unreadable.
> >>
> >> SteveT
> > Different strokes for different folks. I loved learning C from K&R.
> > Every time I hit a problem, a careful reading of the relevant parts
> > always explained it. But that was me (and in a very different era),
> > and as I am currently teaching C I know that many of my students need
> > more structural support in learning I did. I've just starting using
> > an online textbook instead of only my own notes, and most of them seem
> > to like having something they can refer to when they're on their own.
> >

> > --
> > Bob Montante
> >      The Tao of math:  The numbers you can count are not the real
> numbers.

> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Dng@???
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
> I have been using C since around 1978.
>
> The original manual (which I still have), "A Programmer's Work Bench" is
> clear about its intended audience and purpose, it is aimed at system
> programming and as a replacement for assembly language, a portable
> assembler.
>
> I also have multiple articles from the Bell Labs Journals. All, however
> written for an audience with advanced engineering and/or math degrees (a
> Bell Labs MTS) and are not particularly useful for general consumption.
>
> I taught C programming at Bell Labs and AT&T and in Universities after
> retiring. I have also written a considerable amount of code, mostly for
> embedded system and OS core service.
>
> In my opinion, most people who code should not be using a language that
> allows for pointer access, pointer arithmetic, and the other low level
> access and side effects that are built into the language. That said,
> there are to my knowledge no good Algol based languages in common use.
> Pascal and its progeny (Modular, Modular-2, Modular-3) never caught on
> and the original Iron Man became a horror of complexity as Ada. The
> current P-Code languages such as Python and Java are, for me, too slow
> and exhibit an annoying syntax. Propriety languages such as PL/I could
> have succeeded if their parent companies had released them into the
> public domain.
>
> Therefore, I guess C is all that is available for coding ELF
> applications. As such, I would strongly recommend reading all one can
> find on the Internet. Every C book I have reviewed that is reasonably
> understandable leaves out or glosses over some of the truly useful
> language constructs. What is most often missing are proper use of a
> union rather then casting, the use of an atexit stack and signals for
> minimizing crashes, the extensive memory monitoring library and the
> ability to start the program prior to main() so the signal masks and
> memory monitors can be started prior to the operational code.
>
> I still have the syllabus from the undergraduate class I taught. Its
> badly out of date but perhaps I can update it and post it on some public
> forum.
>
> As the 'turkey' that started this somewhat diverging group of threads I
would be quite interested in such a syllabus.

(Maybe we'll get you writing a book yet - - - - grin! )

TIA