---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor@???>
Date: Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: [DNG] question on programming (maybe OT???)
To: Simon Walter <simon@???>




On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 11:24 AM Simon Walter <simon@???> wrote:

> On 2024-03-21 22:00, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:15 AM Vince Mulhollon <vince@???
> > <mailto:vince@mulhollon.com>> wrote:
> >

> >     On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 8:42 AM o1bigtenor via Dng
> >     <dng@??? <mailto:dng@lists.dyne.org>> wrote:
> >     > Some would consider what I want to set up as IoT, some might
> >     suggest using SCADA some would suggest a web based system - - - but
> >     I'm wondering if I could be served by something else.

> >

> >     Sometimes it helps to look at similar working systems.

> >

> >     You are reinventing the PLC.  Codesys is a commercial soft-PLC that
> >     runs on Debian, quite cheap and affordable on a raspi, I've messed
> >     around with this stuff and it works well.  Even if you end up not
> >     using codesys if you're reinventing the concept of a PLC this would
> >     give you some insight into what you're trying to invent.

> >
> ...
> >
> >
> > Fan(s) in question run some over 6k cfm - - - this is not quite regular
> > household stuff.
> > Controlls are available - - - I don't like because not a one is rated to
> > work below
> > 0C (32F) and as my facility is unheated - - - - well this winter like
> > was on the warm
> > side but we still got to -20C (if not slightly colder).
> > This lack in commercial controls is one reason why I want to roll my own!
>
> I would also give the same advice, but you know your hardware and if
> it's compatible.
>

I can see why the commercially available controlls are only rated for down
to 0C
- - - its called the bulk of the use cases. What I don't see is why the
bloody thing
is so expensive ($800) but that could be because there are at least 2 hands
that
have to make a profit on the provision but I still don't understand why a
bit of software
plus $70 worth of parts = that kind of $$$$$ (to me that smacks of
'greed').
(Oh well its why I'm getting into the roll you own ucontroller system
stuff!)

>
> If you have to go the roll your own route, I would counter:
>
> On 2024-03-21 15:22, karl@??? wrote:
> ...
> > A database management system like postgresql is just an unnessesary
> > overhead.
>
> This statement could create a false dichotomy in your mind.
>
> "A database management system" vs "text file"
>
> What about a "database" vs "text file"?
>
> Also somewhat misleading, since a text file could be considered a database.
>
> If you do have your flat file in a common format such as CSV, well your
> making a database anyway - literally. You're just re-inventing the wheel.
>
> In my professional opinion, too many professionals are scared of the
> word "database". In my experience, they are really scared of relational
> databases, as they often jump on the "NoSQL" band wagon.
>
> Some "NoSQL" database might be a good fit for collecting large amounts
> of data, but if you know some SQL, you can start with SQLite (just a
> file) and then use a database server (MariaDB, PostgreSQL) later if you
> need to.
>
> A time series database sounds to be a good fit for your project.
> Prometheus is a decent one that I use. Though a time series database
> might not be necessary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_series_database
>
> The code to connect and write to and read data from a database is not
> complicated in most languages.
>
> ORMs are where you may find a lot of nonsense. With relational
> databases, the key (no pun) is to understand database normalization.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_normalization
>
> I just tried to search for a good site for you to check, but I'm not
> sure what happened to the Internet since I last looked at it. :(
>
> Anyone know a site with concise info about normalization?
>
> Now the real important reason why you want to use a database for your
> project:
>
> - There was that strange weather event some weeks ago and you want to
> query the data to see if sensor xyz also showed the anomaly.
> - Or you want to plot the difference between several sensors, motors,
> and load.
> - You want to see the average of xyz data (temp, fan speed, whatever).
>
> All sorts of insights can be found without fancy reporting tools such as
> Pentaho and Jasperreports. They are pretty nice though. I suppose you
> could even plot your live data.
>

I might be inclined towards things where I could graph things like a wind
rose,
and a chart for the barometric pressure but I am fairly comfortable using
just numeric data. Was thinking of having someting where there could be a
data slot where there could be one of three symbols a plus sign, a dash
(assuming that's what '-' that is called) and a 0 (for the obvious
increasing
decreasing or steady state) if its not too much of a pain I am thinking of
enhancing them by making the '+' red, the '-' blue and the '0' green. That
makes looking at a lot of readings very very fast!


>
> Maybe not. I haven't tried all the newfangled cloud generation AI stuff
> written in Rust and JS. Maybe they have found a new way to screw in a
> light bulb.
>
>
I am thinking of keeping things rather simple - - - Python is what I'm
working on at this point.

Thanks for the ideas and time!