On 2/01/24 19:55, tito via Dng wrote:
>
> A counter example: bug 1058701
>
> Package: ftp.debian.org
> Severity: normal
> X-Debbugs-Cc: mario.limonciello@???
>
> The pm-utils package hasn't had any activity in Debian since 2019.
> All bugs have been ignored.
>
> Upstream [1] has been dead since 2010.
>
> __Modern userspace uses systemd to perform suspend/resume instead.__
>
> and suddenly package was removed without even contacting the maintainer:
>
> We believe that the bug you reported is now fixed; the following
> package(s) have been removed from unstable:
>

>    pm-utils |   1.4.1-19 | source, all

>
> ------------------- Reason -------------------
> RoQA; dead upstream
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> The package was later re-added after maintainer complained,
> but the synthesis of this story is in the last sentence of the bug report:
>
> Modern userspace uses systemd to perform (put whatever you want here) instead.
>
> This meme is widely spread nowadays and many people just don't care
> about init system diversity and are ready to accept it.
> So as the ancient Romans said:
>
> " Si vis pacem para bellum"
>
> Ciao,
> Tito

No offence meant. English is not my first language. My apologies in advance.

But only after a successful conquest (physical + winning the hearts).
But obviously it all depends on the leadership-quality of the
sydtemd-free distros to fend off these uncalled for challenges.

Linux always had its challenges. Way back in 1996 the audio was
problematic, ext1/2fs had its quirks from time to time and bringing up
XF86 for the first time was a very scary experience to say the least.
But it was fun and rewarding to be able to enjoy such a fine *free OS*.
The freedom which comes with it has to be earned and if a user is not
willing to get his hands a tiny bit dirty he is in the wrong department.
At least that is my attitude. Today, the slightest challenge comes along
and some people think the sky is caving in. That is not going to happen
unless some idiot presses the red button. IMHO that's life, period.

Personally, I am not worried if sysv-rc should finally go, even if rc.S
should go. The Debian/Devuan runit-package has progressed well and is
working fine for a general Desktop-Environment and is supported by an
excellent set of debian-runit-specific documents. Any missing
start-script can in most cases easily be written by having a look at the
equivalent sysv-script. I (not a techie and 84+ years young, no kidding)
can manage it - so what *is* the problem??????
I use 'runit-init' on and off since the 'devuan-ascii' days. For a more
future-proof systemd-free Linux s6 (a distant cousin of systemd) is
perhaps a better long-term solution. With a s6 compatible logind and a
more user-friendly management tool I like to think that a lot of present
and future problems caused by systemd would be more manageable. And I
hear that s6 is much more Unix than Windows.

But what worries me slightly more right now is the fact that the whole
pam-sheebang is scheduled to be scrapped by Debian-Limited and I don't
think elogind etc is ready for that one. I must say, a smart move by
them but it also could boomerang very badly for them. If they really
will go ahead as scheduled by them, I have my doubts. Fedora with its
much smaller package-base should be able to do it and if anything breaks
in Fedora so what, that distro is not meant to be a production distro.
Hopefully, Debian-Limited learned something from their usrmerge fiasco.

Obviously I would like to continue using xfce4 as my desktop but if I
have to compromise too much I will just simply switch back to a
window-managed gui. It is as simple as that.

The way I see it: As long as we are not caught napping or start
panicking we should be fine.

And a big thank-you to all the devs for their quality work.

Fred