Il giorno lun 1 gen 2024 alle ore 18:15 tito via Dng
<dng@???> ha scritto:

> This list cares because the removal of sysv-support in systemd
> to force all packages that do not have a .service file to create one
> will be the prelude to the removal by the package maintainers
> of their sysv init scripts without the need of ctte or vote
> but just by the law of maximum laziness (common
> excuses we have already heard are: cannot maintain
> 2 init systems, sysvinit is not used by debian anyway,
> systemd is the defacto standard, cannot test etc. etc.) .

Ok, possible, but is there any evidence that the removal of sysvinit
scripts that we are observing follows this scheme?

two counter examples here:

1)
In Debian there were 314 packages shipping a sysv init scripts without
a .service file (June 2023 [1]).
On my sistem (Debian unstable) I have:
# apt-file search /etc/init.d/ | wc -l
1251
So (1251 - 314=) 937 packages in Debian already ship both a systemd
and a sysv services before this systemd drop-sysv-generator thing; according
to your reasoning above, why are they still keeping a sysv script?

2)
truly lazy maintainers would not bother to drop the init script and just add a
copy of the service file generated with the systemd-generator.
Maintaners perfers to not touch things that do not bother them, so unless
they receive a stream of annyoing bug about an init script (and that's
rarely the case)
they are not going to consider the sysv script a burden.


Also, you can verify your idea by looking at already resolved bugs
(~80) in [1]; at the
end of the bug there is the changelog so you can check if the removal is
happening there.
I had a look at a sample and I don't see a pattern of removal.

My impression is that there is a group of maintainers close to systemd
that are indeed
removing init scripts from packages that they maintain[2];
unfortunately they maintain some
very relevant packages (like rsyslog, mdadm, udev ..) so sysv users
are going to feel very
bad about this. But this is not a trend that will continue untill
there are no sysv script left,
once this group remove all initscripts in packages they control, the
removal will stop.

I dont' think there will be a removal of something like 500 or 1200
scripts, but it's a guess:
I don't have an estimate of this number (since the task is time
consuming and not
relevant for runit) but I think it is relevant to figure out the right
solution for sysv users.
You are going to waste a lot of time if you develop a solution that
scale up to 1200 but
end up with 50 or 100 scripts removed; the opposite is also true.

[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?users=bluca@debian.org;tag=missing-systemd-service
[2] and it's unrelated to systemd dropping support for sysvinit scripts

Lorenzo

> Due to the fact that there are some 1200
> packages with initscripts in daedalus it could be a huge
> task that the devuan community probably cannot
> accomplish to fork them all.
> So we are thinking about a way to automate
> or overcome this future problem with devuan's
> limited manpower and infrastructure before
> it will become an actual problem.
>
> Ciao,
> Tito
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