:: Re: [DNG] Thoughts and infos on unm…
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Autor: Svante Signell
Data:  
Dla: Lorenz, Devuan ML
Temat: Re: [DNG] Thoughts and infos on unmerged layout
Hi Lorenz,

Nice posting, comments below.

(Can you please use plain text instead of html mail so replying will be
easier in the future. Thanks!)

On Tue, 2023-11-28 at 00:37 +0100, Lorenz via Dng wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sharing infos in the hope to save some time to people interested
> in supporting unmerged layout on Devuan.
>
> First thing: at the end of this usrmerge transition, the usrmerge
> package is expected to go away and the essential package "base-files"
> is expected to ship /bin /sbin (and so on) as symlinks.
> So, I think, the first step to support a unmerged layout is to fork
> "base-files" into something like "base-files-unmerged" that Breaks
> and Replaces the official package. While the forked package installs
> /bin /sbin and so as directories the system becomes broken, so the
> package need to do some symlink farming. I think this can be done by
> having a postinstall script that uses perl as interpreter. This
> symlink list should guarantee that essential functionality of
> the system works, including boot and shutdown.
>
> at this point there are at least two options:
>
> A) continue with symlink farming approach: 
>     create a symlink for each program that is expected to be
> available in /bin.     for example /bin/foo would be a symlink to
> /usr/bin/foo I'm not sure people that feel strong against usrmerge
> will see a value in this setup ( /bin and /sbin filled with symlinks)
> but there are advantages: * only one package is forked
> * deb packages no longer need to obey to restrictions listed as
> mitigations in https://subdivi.de/~helmut/dep17.html
>    (while Debian will need to obey the list forever)
> * you can have extra packages that install stuff in /bin /sbin
> Still separate /usr layouts need to boot via initramfs and a list of
> non-essential programs that needs symlinks has to be maintained.
>
> B) on top of "base-files-unmerged", fork other packages:
>   I don't have the exact number, but I recall Helmut writing about
> 500 packages   involved (because of systemd units) that are about
> half (or maybe 2/3) of the   problem, so I think the number rages
> from 750 to 1000 sources.   However, 500 are involved because of
> systemd unit (and we don't care about   these) so the number can be
> as low as ~250.


> Anyway, if one focus on the essential set the number shrinks to
> something like ~40 packages, and another ~40 with priority important.
>   Not necessary all of those 80 packages need to be rebuilded.
>
> regardless that A or B is chosen, there is another problem: with the
> merged layout  it doesn't matter if one calls /bin/foo or
> /usr/bin/foo, but with the unmerged one it does; so B) may need to
> create symlink for essential+important binaries under /usr.
> And both A and B will need to create and maintain a certain number of
> symlinks for non essential/required programs that are invoked with
> the "wrong" path;  the number of such program is unknown and may
> increase in future.
>
> Please keep in mind that the above is just a draft, I have not done
> any test to ensure that it really works. I don't have the time and
> energy to continue this work right now, but I may have in the future
> so if anyone starts working on this, please keep me in the loop!


Thanks, a very constructive posting. I'll vote for B) even if there is
more work to make it happen. Keep the ideas flowing!

Thanks!