On Sun, 26 Nov 2023 09:24:51 +1100, terryc wrote in message
<20231126092451.0cd7bc9b@???>:

> On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 16:12:46 +0100
> Arnt Karlsen <arnt@???> wrote:
>
> >

> > ..try live without it for a week, just see _whether_ you _can_ 
> > untangle your own email from claws.    

>
> Okay, wtf are you people doing that you suffer lock-in?

..in my case, running disks too long, and then having to recover my
email from a dead Netscape Communicator suite on a dead Wintendo 95
on my first pc, which worked just fine on S.u.S.E.-5.2 (and later
Red Hat-5.2 thru 7.3 and Debian Sarge to Etch) where I went back
to exmh with my email tree in Maildir format with formail, AFAIR.

> Claws doesn't download/collect emails unless I specifically 'press a
> button' each and everytime. Then it downloads and sorts.

..I usually automate those 2 with fetchmail and procmail, but I agree
'pressing a button' is wise with suspect hardware or software, avoids
data loss.

> > If you can't, you're locked-in, and will go down with that ship
> > _whenever_ the claws ship goes down.
> > Remember, good old Lennart _could_ "join" the claws team. ;o)
>
> Well, there other mailers so unless I loose access to Devuan packages,
> there are no real problems.

..losing access to Devuan packages is no real problem, we can go
sideways to e.g. Slackware and use alien to convert their claws
tgz package to a trustworty .deb, or build .debs off their source.
We only need people to set up those .deb build jobs.

..the bigger problem is sneaky changes in Debian packages posing as
Devuan packages because we trust them too much. Can also happen
upstream, e.g. in claws git repository. All email projects going
down at the same time, is less likely to happen.

> Even 'primitive' is still workable aka accessing "/var/mail/user on
> the mail server" although the SO is going to be very annoyed wading
> through headers and that html rubbish. If that happens, I'll might
> have to revive my scripting skills.

..do that either way, you might come up with something new and better
than we have now.

> Seriously people, from the 'horror' posts regularly popping up on
> this list, it seems like many of you need to get out into the sunshine
> and fresh air a bit more.

..horror stories that get enough sunshine, provides good recovery
recipes.

> FYI, I started doing 'mail chucking' well before Linux came into
> existence.

..some of us needs to keep all records for legal reasons.

> A little bit on various unix boxen for $ and wrangling
> two community Fidonet nodes on OS/2 for a hobby and my favourite mail
> server is smtp with the alternate settings. Now, that 'program' was
> about putting together the parts/services you required.
>
> Running sendmail, some pop and currently claws-mail suits me fine.

..see above on "either way." ;o)

> Time to follow our cat into the sunshine.
> terryc

..too late for that up here, it'll shine in mid January.

> > > > And I think we all can name a
> > > > half a dozen great softwares that later went bad.      

> > >

> > > IME, they just end up being unsupported.    

> >
> > ..the systemd die-hards still support Debian. ;o)
>
> Point lost on me. I thought the discussion was about great software
> packages like cheaops, etc.

..great software can be destroyed very quickly by bad people,
chk output of 'how-can-i-help --old |less ' for details, is a
wee part of how we wound up here at Devuan and not Debian...


--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.