Manfred Wassmann via Dng - 23.07.23, 08:08:00 CEST:
> > What *is* relevant and every one here should think about is what the
> > diziet "Installing Debian bookworm without systemd" article poses as
> > the *right* question to ask.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > " ... the right question is "why use Devuan"? Since in general, if
> > all things are equal, it's usually better to use an upstream distro
> > rather than a derivative."
>
> Well, from the blog post it's plain obvious this precondition doesn't
> hold as the first major difference is: With Devuan you just install
> the distro and have a systemd-free system but with Debian you have to
> hack it and the way to do that will be different and probably harder
> with every release.
>
> So this (Ian "diziet" Jackson's) statement is worthless and thus the
> question answered.

I do not think the question is worthless.

For one hand I go by the saying that there are no bad questions, just
bad answers.

For the other hand asking why it is necessary to bring in the effort to
fork Devuan in order to have a Systemd free Debian is actually a good
question to ask.

However when asking this question I come to the conclusion that this is
due to factors within the Debian community that are not easy to change.
Factors which are often enough related to power play and manipulative
communication. Debian is not a democracy. It never was. (Mind you,
neither is Germany for example. At most it is a simulation of something
they call a democracy.) Frankly written, as I experienced it again and
again and again, part of the Debian community is highly toxic. I do not
like to engage with those parts of the community anymore. There is a
reason for why debian-init-diversity (bad name actually, but whatever)
mailing list is not hosted on official Debian servers. I even often enough
was at a point to give up maintaining the one package in Debian that I
still maintain.

And actually I have given up on it. For now.

But even as I have given up on it for now, that does not invalidate the
question in any way. The question is still a good question to ask.

So it is Devuan for me for now.

Best,
--
Martin