On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 17:50:07 +0100
Arnt Karlsen <arnt@???> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 08:30:14 -0400, Steve wrote in message
> <20210327083014.2b434f9f@???>:
>
> > Alexis PM via Dng said on Sat, 27 Mar 2021 09:23:21 +0000 (UTC)
> >
> > > > Hi All,
> > >>
> > >> Debian is engaging in a disgusting attack against RMS:
> > >> https://www.debian.org/vote/2021/vote_002
> > >>
> > >> Does Devuan have resolutions to sign open letters?
> > >> I'd propose to sign this one instead:
> > >> https://rms-support-letter.github.io/
> > >>
> > >> See also:
> > >> An orthodox analysis entitled Justice for Dr. Richard Matthew
> > >> Stallman, which recaps the whole story.
> > >> https://jorgemorais.gitlab.io/justice-for-rms/
> > >>
> > >> A post, written by Hannah Wolfman-Jones, with a response from
> > >> civil-rights expert Nadine Strossen, former president of the
> > >> ACLU. https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web
> > >>
> > >
> > >I propose to extend the Devuan (and personal) signature of the
> > >quoted letter ( https://rms-support-letter.github.io/index.html )
> > >also to the other existing letter of support (more detailed but
> > >little known)
> > >https://gitlab.com/KenjiBrown/rms-open-letter/-/blob/master/index.md
> > >(replicated at
> > >https://github.com/KenjiBrown/rms-open-letter.github.io/blob/main/index.md
> >
> > You know, I might not be the best person to advocate for Devuan,
> > because pretty much everyone knows my Daily Driver Desktop (DDD) is
> > Void Linux. But I run Devuan on VMs, and if Void ever stops being
> > viable, Devuan is my Plan B.
> >
> > I think pretty much everyone also knows of my anti-systemd advocacy
> > in the critical 2014-2015 period, and I'm quite sure that advocacy
> > cost my business revenue in the five figures category.
>
> ..me, I was playing catch-up after Groklaw.net, also been subject to
> Kafka style games, next week I may be able to run for parliament here
> as, er, a slightly more human vrms... with a possibly firmer climate
> repair policy. ;o)
>
> ..climate is as simple as a chicken race, either we make farmland soil
> out of the methane clathrate tundra gas, or, it will make farmland
> soil out of us, just like it did with the dinosaurs, conodonts,
> synapsids, placoderms and trilobites, in those wonderful natural
> climate cycles so beloved by the gun toting far right. ;o)
>
> ..oh and the gun toters will love how climate compares to a shotgun
> cartridge: Bang on that primer like we humans dug-n-burned coal 'n
> oil, then watch the primer shake up 'n ignite the powder like we heat
> 'n shake up the tundra with CO2, and the next thing you know is
> watching the tundra shooting slugs straight up like a shot gun on TV
> or youtube, yeehaw.
>
>
> ..pump the excess heat out of the oceans and sell it as electricity,
> is just another one of my ways to fix it.
>
> > But this isn't about me. This is about some very brave VUAs who
> > built Devuan when everyone said it couldn't be done. Devuan is a
> > very valuable resource to many, many people. Without Devuan, the
> > cause of init-choice would be set back immensely.
>
> ..there's slackware.com. No apt, no deb, but we have alien, and we
> have people on both sides, who can help set up a formal bug tracking
> facility for slackware, that can also be set up to facilitate using
> Slackware as a viable upstream alternative to Debian for Devuan.

There is also PcLinuxOS even if rpm based but they have the full stack
systemd free and could be a source of code for devuan as they already
solved somehow most of the problems. Systemd free distros should
pool their efforts to avoid duplication and to gain critical mass.

Tito

> > And now you're suggesting Devuan put that all at risk to take a
> > stand on RMS. Well you know what? No distro should get involved with
> > politics, and this RMS thing *is* politics.
>
> ..aye. People look for spine and integrity, once they wisen up.
>
> > It cost Mint plenty of users when they said supporters of Israel
> > shouldn't use Mint, and it just might destroy Devuan if they take a
> > stand, on either side, on this RMS thing.
>
> ..aye. Again, people look for spine and integrity, once they wisen
> up. Anything visibly built upon spine, integrity and wisdom will come
> out as good, and we _have_ walked out of Debian on this suspect
> backdoor known as systemd.
>
> ..short term "Bumpy Rides" are expected common parts of this, and
> yes, way way back in its heydays a decade ago, Debian was known to
> be the "slow but safe" distro.
>
> > Listen, if you want to sign that stuff, go ahead. Don't come crying
> > to me if your boss fires you for cause for violating their social
> > networking policy, and you can't get unemployment because you were
> > fired for cause.
>
> ..join a employee union first, then go slow, document EVERYTHING, so
> you can have your union law sharks go after any Kafka style gamers
> coming for you.
> Steve is not wrong here, exactly because we live in an imperfect
> world. RMS is not the only one, we have Snowden, Manning, Winner,
> Navalny and way too many more out there.
>
> > But don't get the Devuan distro involved. Devuan is the work of
> > many, many people, for many, many years, around the once very
> > unpopular stance of init-choice. Don't put that at risk.
>
> ..IMNTHO, I believe Devuan as a distro should support and endorse RMS
> coming back to the FSF etc boards, for precisely that reason, lowering
> the long term risk to Devuan's reputation, by standing firm on spine,
> integrity and wisdom.
>
> > SteveT
> >
> > Steve Litt
> > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the
> > Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>