Hi,

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    essentially same message,
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On 31/12/19 12:32 pm, Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote:
> fsmithred via Dng writes:
>> On 12/29/19 10:46 PM, tom wrote:
>>> I know Devuan has been pretty much more or less 'to create a
>>> binary compatible Debian but without systemd', but at what
>>> point would it be determined that the best course of action
>>> may be to leave Debian behind and continue our own way?
>>> Probably won't happen any time soon due to manpower issues but
>>> it's worth thinking about.
>>
>> One way to measure that might be to see if we start falling
>> farther behind debian. Right now, we're still catching up.
>>
>> Jessie was 2 years late. Ascii was 1 year late. Beowulf is 6
>> months late.
>
> You just brightened up my view of Devuan's future :-)
>
> I'd been getting a little disappointed with the fact there's still
> no beowulf but looking at it this way, you're still going strong,
> despite any resources issues. Keep up the good work!
>
>> Any talk of switching our base is premature.
>
> Hope this helps,

I agree, it is premature, but I, myself have to admit to being a bit
impatient.

I wonder, not very much though, if Fedora supports non system better
than Debian does or will?

I can't wait for Beowulf either, 6 months now... how long before it is
released. We do have Ascii 2.1 from fairly recently, but I'm sure
that there are many things that Beowulf will help to modernize our
distro of choice. My son is complaining about the mail server not
supporting TLS1.3 and that is down to openssl being v1.1.0l.... and
not v1.1.1

Buster, from which Beowulf will "align" has v1.1.1d-0_deb10u2 -- not
sure it includes TLS1.3 support, but I expect it does. Is there any
chance of a backport or should we just wait until Beowulf is ready?

I think it is pretty clear now that unless there is a serious change
in Debian's direction, the DDs have clearly flown the systemd flag as
their extremely strong preference and little will be possible in
persuading them otherwise, ever. Given that DDs are the only "chosen"
ones to decide on Debian's future, that makes it even more unlikely to
change.

Some here might be aware of Louis Rossmann[1], he is a strong advocate
of right to repair and whilst he regularly profits from Apple design
problems and highlights the problems (sans rose coloured glasses of
iDevotees), he would love for Apple to stop having problems and for
that part of his business to become unnecessary. In some respects I
was sort of hoping that Debian would "fix" their problems and lessen
the need for Devuan as well. As it is today and now very likely, very
much in to the future, we definitely need Devuan to keep going and to
get much stronger over time as we can surely not rely upon Debian too
much unless we choose to move to pro systemd camp and that is not
likely either for most, if not all of us here.

[1]
http://axqzx4s6s54s32yentfqojs3x5i7faxza6xo3ehd4bzzsg2ii4fv2iid.onion/ch
annel/UCl2mFZoRqjw_ELax4Yisf6w

NB: That is a v3 .onion address for https://invidio.us (no need for
https with .onion addresses and only available on (or via) the Tor
network. Invidious is a "portal" of sorts to YT videos without the
need to visit YT.


So.... how long before we can expect to get stable release of Beowulf?
Is there a reasonable timeline available yet?

Thank you for your good work at Devuan, it is very much appreciated.

Kind Regards
AndrewM