On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:46:51 -0500
Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:10:46 +1100
> terryc <terryc@???> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:11:16 +1100
> > Andrew McGlashan via Dng <dng@???> wrote:
> >

> > > Debian needs to somehow find a way to include users (especially
> > > sysadmins)  in a meaningful way in votes of such significance.    

> >
> > In my experience, when people who do not do the work start telling
> > the people who do do the work, what to do, many efforts
> > disintigrate.
>
> I didn't hear anyone telling people what to do. I heard Tom ask a
> question.

Err, this is the DEVUAN list and not the DEBIAN list. Your comments
remind me of that old skit about looking for lost money "over here
where the light is better", rather than where the money was dropped.

YMMV but I've lost track of the number of times
in the past where something proposed by the Debian Devs has had strong
opposition that has been ignored. So I also see making comments in the
same view as "writing to IBM" which someone suggested in the
recent past.

> > As a user, I simply choose which best distribution serves my purpose
> > and when it ceases to do so, I simply move on as I have in the
> > past.
>
> I think most of us have plan B and plan C in case sans-systemd distros
> go bad or go defunct, but what I'm hearing you say is you think it's
> bad to provide feedback to the VUAs, and instead will just switch
> distros. Is that really superior to Tom's question?

As replied above, good luck, but debian stopped being plan A a while
ago.

Also, ever since I've been investigating/using Linux(93?), there has
been a consistent theme for (some?) devs of "if you don't like it, then
do it yourself". It can be a confronting reply, but much as I've
never liked it, it is a valid response. People who volunteer, both in
Linux and life, have the 'right"(?) to do what they want to.


> Many years ago, on this mailing list, one of the VUAs mentioned that
> the long term plan was to leave Debian behind and become the Devuan
> independent distro. If I were a mind reader I'd guess that his
> statement was because he foresaw the possibility of a future Debian
> corruption like we're seeing today, he believed that continual
> modification of Debian was not a safe way to perpetuate the creation
> of Devuan, and eventually wanted to move away from that potential
> catastrophe.

That is what I am expecting MAY occur over time. Hopefully it will. so
my 2c is to not beat your head against the Debian rock but work for the
Devuan project.