Who says I don’t think those people are just as bad? I’m sorry but you seem
to be inferring a lot here although maybe I misunderstood you as well. I’ll
take the brunt of that, personally.

I understand, you seem to be very invested in the idea of saving the planet
from further climate change and seem very convicted when writing about said
topics. Do I think that you are above the plan said people have for the
entire planet? Not at all. But then again, I’m assuming you’re not the
super rich people you just spoke about who have been exploiting the planet
to meet their needs. No one here will disagree with you on that.

Damn. I didn’t know people were as fired up about this as you are. Really
makes me wonder if my stance is a little too relaxed.

I apologize for my misreadings of the 30% figure you brought up and I will
admit that I’m not well versed in the inner workings of the country you
just named. If you are connected to these places in anyway, I want you to
know I’m not attacking any group/country in particular.

You made an interesting point though that is a direct counter argument to
the gentleman who believes climate change to be a Malthusian ploy.

Why, how long, and who has been funding propaganda to dismiss climate
change? If the mega wealthy are the ones ringing the bell on climate change
and its impact on humanity, how can the plots of oil tycoons to silence
climate science be that effective?

Are they two different factions? Or are they both designed either the same
end game?

Oil tycoons: “Climate science is fake, don’t believe in global warming.”

Rich environmentalists: “We need to stop using fossil fuels or we’re all
gonna die.”

Are these the same coin and what do they really think of the average
human’s life?

Maybe this is a rant. Don’t crucify me here for my lack of continuity I’ve
got a lot going on today. Excuse me if I seem to jump from topic to topic
hastily.



On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 4:30 PM Tim Schloendorn <timschloe@???> wrote:

> We disagree on where the dangerous power hungry people sit, not whether
> they exist. I tend to locate them directly above oil wells extracting petro
> dollars from the rest of the world. The type who desperatly wants the world
> to believe that no harm is coming from them and nobody could possibly
> benefit from a decentralized solar energy supply. The type who hires former
> tobacco-is-good-for-you consultants to claim climate science was
> pseudoscience.
>
> Suggesting to dig into the actual physics before calling making a call
> instead of comparing the political coms of Extinction Rebellion to those of
> Saudi Arabia, both simplfy, just one is backed up by a gazillion of
> high-res physical models and data and the other backed by a gazillion
> dollars. Blackbody radiation models are pretty solid and so are absorption
> spectra. You don't have to experiment in outer space to build models, core
> physical laws apply all over the universe for all we know. Nobody wants
> "All out acceptance", accepting a few % probability that CO2 is the leading
> cause of a mass extinction event that can possibly include homo sapiens in
> the next 2-300 years is enough.
>
> And yes, in contrast to extinction rebellion I do advocate for bombing the
> shit out of oil refineries, fracking sides and coal fired power plants and
> hope to cough up enough cash to fund the development of an
> assassination-market-style betting market for ecoterrorism soon. So much
> for unSystem ethos ;-)
>
> Also, you've obviously never been to Kenya and keep misreading my posts on
> the hyper fast adoption of mobile technology there. Their GDP wasn't
> increased by 30%, but 30% of all financial transactions in the country are
> phone-to-phone.
>
> ‪On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:51 PM ‫מטטרון מיטטרון‬‎ <metatrongone@???>
> wrote:‬
>
>> Antarctica is gaining ice while the arctic is losing ice.
>>
>> Climate change is not fully understood. The above example is enough for
>> me to believe it’s not a settled debate. All out denial is retarded and all
>> out acceptance is retarded.
>>
>> If we can agree on that then I’m sure we can find something else to
>> disagree on if you’d like.
>>
>> Don’t patronize people for sharing what they think here. Especially when
>> it comes to science/population control. I’ve been on this email list for
>> almost 8 years now and have never seen anyone put someone down or dismiss
>> very real tactics for depopulation.
>>
>> If you don’t think the world won’t hijack a scary thing and monetize it
>> by spreading more fear, then I’m not sure you understand the objective of
>> “unSystem.” We don’t live in fear here. At least I don’t.
>>
>> To address the topic of the email, my thoughts on extinction rebellion is
>> simple: when humans have more money, power, and technology than common
>> people, common people begin to look like animals. A sort of filth that is
>> not as optimized. Rebellion is almost certain in the case of mass
>> extinction but how will you fight back if you don’t even know it’s
>> happening?
>>
>> The little 30% increase in GDP attributed to mobile phone use for
>> whatever country you named is negligible. Quite literally, 12 year olds in
>> America and GB have more information at their fingertips than even the most
>> technologically advanced third world adults. Hence, the reason why they
>> only know to use their technology for very few things I.e. scamming via
>> VOIP.
>>
>> I don’t want to get into suppositions too much because the world is a
>> very complicated place. But, to believe there aren’t people in the world
>> with the sole goal of power and manipulation is very “unSystem-like” in my
>> honest opinion.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 1:45 PM Tim Schloendorn <timschloe@???>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> lol, well, I wasn't looking for a fight to be honest, but you can start
>>> reading here and work your way up through 123 years of peer reviewed
>>> climate science.
>>> https://www.rsc.org/images/Arrhenius1896_tcm18-173546.pdf
>>> But shure, big rock in space, you got the scientific method all nailed
>>> down, anything goes, right? Arrhenius was completly bonkers anyway, oh,
>>> wait, yeah, except for that one foundational equation in kinetics named
>>> after him.
>>>
>>> Reg Kenya: I didn't talk about the size of their GDP but the fact that
>>> everybody uses mobile money all the time there while US citizens still use
>>> cheques. But admited, China is far further and outstripping the West. But
>>> at least Kenya is developing forward while we are moving backwards towards
>>> a mystical great time somewhere in the past before the US turned evil when
>>> they entered WW2 or whatever. And shove your "how much geometry and english
>>> lessons did the average person" IQ tests your using to measure intelligence
>>> up in a dark place, Mr. Scientific Method.
>>>
>>> ‪On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 8:19 PM ‫מטטרון מיטטרון‬‎ <
>>> metatrongone@???> wrote:‬
>>>
>>>> So you can accurately create the vacuum (and temperatures of space),
>>>> create an artificial atmosphere, inject greenhouse gasses next to a large
>>>> heat supply?
>>>>
>>>> Please do tell me of your findings since thermodynamics is trivial.
>>>> Also, you do understand the illiteracy rate of third world countries is why
>>>> they cannot use technology properly right?
>>>>
>>>> I really want to piss on your fire for believe any place in the western
>>>> world, even the most poor areas is behind some African country boasts
>>>> subhuman level intelligence.
>>>>
>>>> I’ve wrote a paper on this very subject. You can’t take one small area,
>>>> say it’s progressing because of “muh GDP” and use that to describe a whole
>>>> continent.
>>>>
>>>> Also, for you to bash someone who disagrees with religious talks of
>>>> climate change is almost pathetic. Just as you question him he is
>>>> questioning you. Nice tactic there. I’m sure most people wouldn’t even
>>>> respond. But you don’t want a silent victory do you? You want to argue.
>>>>
>>>> Give me a solid climate change model that mimics a 4 billion year old
>>>> space rock and maybe we can discuss something. For now, you’re just picking
>>>> a fight. People should be able to think what they want.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know when you get your hands on the materials I listed above
>>>> because for now, unless you have the 4 billion years and materials to make
>>>> a planet with a circumference of 40,000 km.
>>>>
>>>> I’ll wait for you to publish your research because after all,
>>>> transhumanism should allow us to live that long correct?
>>>>
>>>> Oh wait, don’t forget the magnetosphere and molten iron core! Yeah,
>>>> good luck with that Mr. Thermodynamics.
>>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 10:15 AM Tim Schloendorn <
>>>> timschloe@???> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The science behind climate change is pretty trivial, not that much to
>>>>> learn from it. Just spectral analysis and thermodynamics, Arrhenius got the
>>>>> point in the 19th centaury already. But yes, especially HFC-23 and SF6
>>>>> might be interesting agents to increase the greenhouse effect on Mars. You
>>>>> still need far too much mass to transport it over there, so local
>>>>> production would be required.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reg. African digitial literacy: Lol, have you ever been to Kenya? 30%
>>>>> of GDP was in mobile money there before that was a thing even in China.
>>>>> Nairobi startup culture is far ahead of Berlin or Austin (yeah, the valley
>>>>> died off a long time ago). Forget the Americas and Europe, we are the
>>>>> laggards when it comes to mass adoption of digital social tech...
>>>>>
>>>>> ‪On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 2:05 AM ‫מטטרון מיטטרון‬‎ <
>>>>> metatrongone@???> wrote:‬
>>>>>
>>>>>> For climate change, my opinion is that we take the information we
>>>>>> gather from our own planet. If it is in fact human made, dissect that into
>>>>>> terraforming or something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What else do we use that information for? I’m not a climate
>>>>>> specialist or anything but terraforming is definitely being discussed as a
>>>>>> viable option for mars to be populated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 6:49 PM מטטרון מיטטרון <
>>>>>> metatrongone@???> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What the hell are we going to do with all the humans who can’t even
>>>>>>> use a smart phone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Glad I’m in good company. Sometimes the narcissistic labels are a
>>>>>>> little bit “edged.” Not comfortable to have certain conversations with the
>>>>>>> people this will simply happen to like you pointed out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’d like to think that the minority will be people that choose to
>>>>>>> have those difficult discussions. You obviously know where this is headed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing. I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Third world countries are literally non-salvageable. What will we do
>>>>>>> with most of the world’s population when we deem them mentally incapable of
>>>>>>> providing for themselves in the digital age? How will our and their future
>>>>>>> co-exist? Is it possible? Or will it be like speaking to a dog or a rodent?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These questions won’t be asked in public. Not by big tech anyway.
>>>>>>> They revel in social inclusion and avoid difficult but very important
>>>>>>> questions about our future.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine Bill Gates acknowledging the fact that he plans on
>>>>>>> sterilizing Africa for the greater good of the digital divide? It won’t
>>>>>>> happen. (Don’t take this hypothetical literally, not sure what Gates
>>>>>>> actually is doing)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 5:15 PM Spencer Rhodes <
>>>>>>> spencer.d.rhodes@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My sentiments align with yours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's no reason why this organism should ever leave the earth
>>>>>>>> where it developed and spread across the galaxy either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's also no reason why we should not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Expanding my knowledge of the Universe and my ability to shape it
>>>>>>>> should be my only motivation as a self-aware being.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What other point could there be to existing? None that benefits me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If we can augment ourselves, or guide our own evolution, then we
>>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As you pointed out, this^ is already happening, by accident more
>>>>>>>> than by design.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've always had a fascination with concepts such as
>>>>>>>> self-augmentation and diy bio-hacking. When I stumbled on this weird idea
>>>>>>>> called bitcoin in 2011 it turned me onto the concept of digital
>>>>>>>> self-sovereignty, and self-sovereignty in general.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These (self-empowering/self-leveraging) are the kinds of
>>>>>>>> technologies and ideas that I want to focus my energy on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think these technologies are for everyone and they never
>>>>>>>> will be. Those of us with the intelligence, and will to use them have a
>>>>>>>> personality predisposition that is rare in the population. I've mulled my
>>>>>>>> entire life over the nature vs. nurture source of this predisposition, but
>>>>>>>> that's not really a relevant question anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The point that I'm reaching for is that there will be minority of
>>>>>>>> humans who guide this process deliberately, and there will be a majority
>>>>>>>> for whom it simply happens to them, by accident or by intent of others
>>>>>>>> among the aforementioned minority.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The final point is that if you do not choose to be, and work very
>>>>>>>> hard to be, in that minority, the choice is made for you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've trashed the notion that you can save 'humanity'. Most of them
>>>>>>>> are too dim in mind to be saved(self-enabled), and thus are not worth
>>>>>>>> saving anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm talking about an evolutionary fork. I think it's been happening
>>>>>>>> for a while anyway. *'Narcissistic sociopath' *is such a dirty
>>>>>>>> word for the beautifully self-aware evolutionary outliers in the herd.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ‪On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:22 PM ‫מטטרון מיטטרון‬‎ <
>>>>>>>> metatrongone@???> wrote:‬
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ITT, people are forgetting the earth wasn’t designed to house
>>>>>>>>> augmented humans.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The side effects of technology use (ICTs) is largely unknown. We
>>>>>>>>> may be directly destroying our planet to utilize technology or we may not
>>>>>>>>> be harming anything at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With that said, when we are no longer fully human, what does that
>>>>>>>>> mean for the planet and the pollutants we already release.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Logically, more machines means more emissions. Whether they be
>>>>>>>>> fossil fuels or some other pollutant I don’t give a shit about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My opinion, as long as I have cybernetic capabilities and the
>>>>>>>>> option to live a more “robust” existence, I don’t give two shits about the
>>>>>>>>> earth or the pollutants.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The nerds like Turing and Von Neumann should have had the
>>>>>>>>> foresight to account for a world with more digital intelligence than
>>>>>>>>> biological and the chemical byproducts of making/using computers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With that said, we can thank third world countries for making the
>>>>>>>>> oceans brown and thank large US cities for having miles of trash in the
>>>>>>>>> oceans as well. Ever flew over the Atlantic from Miami? Trash for tens of
>>>>>>>>> miles in the water.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A little food for thought if you live in the US, over 95% of the
>>>>>>>>> population has PFAS (perflouroalkyl substances) melded into their body.
>>>>>>>>> Whatever makes the eggs not stick to the pan, amirite?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 7:45 AM Spencer Rhodes <
>>>>>>>>> spencer.d.rhodes@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I haven't interacted with any of them, and they've only been on
>>>>>>>>>> my radar for about a month now.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just another doomsday cult.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doomsday cults are far from new, but this pseudo-science climate
>>>>>>>>>> change version has been gaining traction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As the Western population became more educated and scientifically
>>>>>>>>>> inclined, (industrialization, public education, mass-production of books)
>>>>>>>>>> the old doomsday cult of Abrahamic Religion started losing it's hold.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, you have to tell people the world is going to end in
>>>>>>>>>> pseudo-scientific terms instead of mythological terms now.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then you have a generation of young people that are so fucking
>>>>>>>>>> dumb or so self-focused that you can't even hold their attention long
>>>>>>>>>> enough to explain these psudo-scientific terms to them. So, you dumb it
>>>>>>>>>> down even more and re-brand it as something edgy and cool.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From their website:
>>>>>>>>>> [image: The Truth Extinction Rebellion Extinction Rebellion.png]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 3:42 AM Alexander Ross <
>>>>>>>>>> maillist_unsystem@???> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Wondering what people on this group think of them. seams like a
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> productive protest effort. only managed to walk around waterloo
>>>>>>>>>>> bridge
>>>>>>>>>>> in the evening on sat 22rd, that night it was cleared. So not
>>>>>>>>>>> seen much
>>>>>>>>>>> in person. Nor was there much going on by that time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Experiences?
>>>>>>>>>>> Opinions?
>>>>>>>>>>> Feedback?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What your currently or intending or wishing to do instead to see
>>>>>>>>>>> progress in world?
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tel: 0041 44 586 47 98
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>>
> _______________________________________________
> unSYSTEM mailing list: http://unsystem.net
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/unsystem
>