On 16/12/2018 20:06, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 07:11:25PM +0000, g4sra via Dng wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>>
>> That is my issue, focus has been lost on what an 'Installer' should do.
>> A great deal is performed at install time that falls into the domain of
>> package manager'. Standard tools such as dpkg, apt-get, synaptec,
>> dpkg-reconfigure are not leveraged by the installee as they should be.
>>
>
> o_O
>
> You can use debootstrap, amend fstab, add a kernel and a boot-loader
> and DYI. Or use the standard netinst without running tasksel and
> skipping the config menus you don't want. It's already there.
Need a running kernel and shell, need debootstrap, the package
management and base packages on available media.


>
> [cut]
>
>> For convenience there is no reason additional but *separate* utilities
>> could not be made available. Do not omit the simplicity and potential of
>> a command such as
>>
>> apt-get install -y @group
>
> But this is exactly what tasksel does, if you want to use it. Which
> "additional utilities" do you have in mind here, exactly?
tasksel does too much, and doing too much requires more developer and
maintenance resources than doing enough. Doing enough reduces the corner
cases that cant be tested for which otherwise result in getting it plain
wrong.

>
>>
>> The base installer should be the lowest common denominator of all
>> installs ranging from a Non-GUI Non-Networked Flash only Embedded Device
>> to a Cloud Server Node.
>>
>
> The lowest common denominator of all those installs is just the
> base-system installed via debootstrap, plus a kernel and a bootloader.
> It contains about 200 packages, has just a shell, a minimal
> environment (which is not even POSIX-compliant), no network config, no
> additional modules, no repos set, no l10n, no i18n, and so on. Again,
> this is still what I use in many situations,
That is a good approximation to what an installer should do.

but my little experience
> suggests that the vast majority of the readers of this list would be
> pretty dissatisfied with this definition of "standard installation".What you are referring to is a 'standard customisation'.
The most effective way of building a standard customisation is to
Boot a Live CD, and when you find one you like, clone to HDD.



Building a system is a two stage process..

Install OS
Customise OS to purpose

Embedding the customisation in the installer is a mistake.