On 18/11/18 at 10:46, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

> KatolaZ - 18.11.18, 09:36:
>> This is not gonna happen, given for instance the way our presence in
>> debian-devel has been "cheered up" (with aggressive posts and personal
> The most important aspect here is: "has been". Its in the past already
> and it does not determine the future.


  Maybe not.  If my English Grammar is still worth the schoolbook paper
it was printed on, "has been" is the Present Continuous Tense, that is
used "to express the idea that something is happening now, at this very
moment. It can also be used to show that something is not happening now."

  So, the main use is for "something is happening now", sometimes for
"something [that] is not happening now."

Hopefully KatolaZ used it in the second sense, but I'm afraid he meant
it in the first sense, which is statistically predominant.


>> insults). The truth is that too many people have a problem with other
>> people not liking systemd and not wanting it around. So I am sorry
>> but Devuan will stay around.
> Maybe… not just yet.
>
> But there certainly is a potential. I am glad about the wonderful
> cooperation between some Devuan and some Debian developers.


  While I do not doubt this is *sometimes* indeed happening, I think
Debian developers and sysadmins for the most part are, like the majority
of people in any context, lazy(*), resistant to change and proud with
developing what is considered the (second) oldest GNU/Linux
distribution.  A long term tradition, pride and the wish to get the job
done with the minimum effort and time spent are not the best ingredients
for changing one's ways.  Adopting systemd and proposing the / -> /usr
merge do are changes, I know, but they are motivated by the promise (or
hope) they are going to diminish the work needed to take a different
approach.  In other words, they are an investment in a future of more
abundant laziness.  And we are part of the people who are disrupting
their quest for pride in laziness, we are the youngsters who are
bothering Grandpa, it's all too natural that most of Debianers feel
Devuaners like smoke in their eyes.  It's going to take time and a
careful, diplomatic way of interacting with the traditionalist, lazy
Granpas to be listened to and eventually be accepted as part of the
family instead of a bunch of bothersome kids.

  I strongly hope Grandpa will eventually not just accept the kids, but
be happy to have them around.  I have no idea however what the chances
are that this is going to happen.  Of course, getting Devuan into
prominence among the Debian spinoffs (and some corporate/VC support and
a few relevant, high profile use cases) would help a lot.  Grandpa is
not stupid, he does notice these things.

  And of course the kids will eventually leave home to have a life of
their own, if they are to grow up into adults.  But this is longer term.


*) Laziness in a broad sense, meaning the natural predisposition to
choose the easiest and shortest path to get the job done.



--
Alessandro Selli <alessandroselli@???>
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