On 10/21/18 12:25 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

> 1) In Debian sysvinit is basically unmaintained. To prevent that Debian
> removes sysvinit and maintainers of individual daemon packages probably
> remove init scripts then, it is important to have sysvinit maintained
> again, including updating it to the latest upstream version – yes,
> someone still works on it. That is what Devuan developers intend to help
> with as far as I got as it helps Devuan, too. If it works out,
> wonderful. If not, Devuan developers can still maintain it on their own.
> This does not mean to rewrite it or implement fancy new features in it,
> just to keep it well maintained and of a good quality.


Martin, how do you think any init can circumvent anything systemd wants
to do? There's a 7 going on 8 year old bug filed against systemd that
says it's going to do what ever the F*** it wants to do.

> 2) Secondly as far as I got none of the core Devuan developers is at all
> interested to work on implementing a systemd unit script parser. There
> is someone who is interested to write something that converts systemd
> units to init scripts as a one-time process, but as far as I am aware
> none of the core Devuan developers see this as a priority. Also there is
> a difference between parsing systemd units every time or have a tool
> that helps to create init scripts once and update them if necessary for
> software that may not ship one. I do not think that such a tool is
> needed, but everyone is totally free to use his or her time as he or she
> likes. Can it be helpful at times to have such a tool? Sure.
>
> So, as to what I see there is really nothing to see here.


No, well lucky for us the heart of Devuan is not in this news group.

> None of the Devuan developers would let go of the important stuff in
> order to write an systemd unit parser… so… of course you can insist on
> discussing it endlessly. I just ask: Is this what you would really like
> to do?


What's your interest? Do you want to help rid systemd?

> If someone likes to work on packaging runit and the runit scripts…
> wonderful. I'd say just go ahead and let others look at and review your
> work. I reviewed some of the runit scripts briefly: Some are really
> dated and probably need to be updated, such as the postfix one.
>
> I really like runit from what I read so far and like to see it
> supported. For now I think it is important to have sysvinit be
> maintained in Debian again and enjoy the first signs of cooperation
> between Devuan and Debian. On sysvinit, but also in elogind package.
> Maybe the start of a long-overdue healing process.


Wow! Your wanting secrets, is that what Debian is after, I don't think
Debian want's a fork and while they don't have as many friendly
developers as they used to and I think for good reasons, they still have
access a whole bunch of git-hub development. Are you trying to say that
Debian don't want systemd, but they're stuck with it? What's your interest?

> How would it be to let the past be in the past… how would it to be let
> go of all the hurting each other and the blaming each other? The past is
> gone. Now both sysvinit and Systemd are there. That is just how it is.
> So instead of convincing those who use Systemd that it is bad, evil, and
> what else not, how about spending time to work on the alternatives like
> having sysvinit maintained again *and* supporting runit in Devuan?


I would like to see more concentration on getting Devuan back to the way
Debian was and then move on.

> How would it look like if we all just accept that some like to use
> Systemd and some do not like to use or install it? Everyone for their
> own reasons with themselves are neither inherently right or wrong.


For one thing if you like systemd then you are in the wrong group period.

> As the sysvinit maintenance thing popped up as a discussion in Debian I
> see the wonderful opportunity to work together. KatolaZ kindly offered
> to help with maintaining sysvinit, Ian Jackson already offered to upload
> changes of Debian sysvinit package, there is a debian-init-diversity
> mailing list, focusing on discussing this work. And while there are some
> people… both in Devuan and Debian who seem to enjoy recreating the past
> with all the suffering again, there are also people who just go for:
>
> What can we do now to improve the situation for everyone? What can we do
> if we let go of the drama and focus on what is here *now*?
>
> The past is gone. It is over. It is just a memory. It by itself does not
> exist.

> Now there is the opportunity for a first light form of cooperation
> between Debian and Devuan and to learn to co-exist in peace with each
> other. To channel all the energy – a huge lot, if you ask me – spent to
> fight against each other to get some work done that will benefit both
> Devuan and Debian.
>
> What happens if we let go of the drama and get on with life again?
>
> Wonderful times, if you ask me. And nothing, at all, to be worried
> about.
>
> I fully get it, the drama has been exciting and interesting. A star
> performance so to say. The rebels against the empire or vice versa –
> without it even being clear on who played which role. But it never wrote
> a single line of code or helped even a tiny bit with maintaining a
> package.
>
> So are you ready to just let go of it… and move on with whatever is
> really important to you? Are you ready to focus on what you self can do,
> instead of insisting to control how other people spend their time?


What do you care? Really what are you doing here? You use Debian
upstream. How can you possibly help support a systemd free OS?

How can I give you a break Martin? How can you help me think you're one
of the good guys?
--
Jimmy Johnson

Slackware64 Current - KDE 4.14.38 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263