Steve Litt - 20.10.18, 03:55:
> Some folks are asking for automatic sysvinit init script generation,
> or else unit file to sysvinit init script converters. Some are asking
> Devuan's developers to prioritize their scarce programmer resources
> to modifying sysvinit, which is over 30 years old. Yet others think
> we should reimplement all the systemd functions in the Unix paradigm.
>
> Stop the madness!

At this stage I believe this discussion, seeing the huge thread, does
not add anything to the progress of Devuan.

Why?

1) In Debian sysvinit is basically unmaintained. To prevent that Debian
removes sysvinit and maintainers of individual daemon packages probably
remove init scripts then, it is important to have sysvinit maintained
again, including updating it to the latest upstream version – yes,
someone still works on it. That is what Devuan developers intend to help
with as far as I got as it helps Devuan, too. If it works out,
wonderful. If not, Devuan developers can still maintain it on their own.
This does not mean to rewrite it or implement fancy new features in it,
just to keep it well maintained and of a good quality.

2) Secondly as far as I got none of the core Devuan developers is at all
interested to work on implementing a systemd unit script parser. There
is someone who is interested to write something that converts systemd
units to init scripts as a one-time process, but as far as I am aware
none of the core Devuan developers see this as a priority. Also there is
a difference between parsing systemd units every time or have a tool
that helps to create init scripts once and update them if necessary for
software that may not ship one. I do not think that such a tool is
needed, but everyone is totally free to use his or her time as he or she
likes. Can it be helpful at times to have such a tool? Sure.

So, as to what I see there is really nothing to see here.

None of the Devuan developers would let go of the important stuff in
order to write an systemd unit parser… so… of course you can insist on
discussing it endlessly. I just ask: Is this what you would really like
to do?

If someone likes to work on packaging runit and the runit scripts…
wonderful. I'd say just go ahead and let others look at and review your
work. I reviewed some of the runit scripts briefly: Some are really
dated and probably need to be updated, such as the postfix one.

I really like runit from what I read so far and like to see it
supported. For now I think it is important to have sysvinit be
maintained in Debian again and enjoy the first signs of cooperation
between Devuan and Debian. On sysvinit, but also in elogind package.
Maybe the start of a long-overdue healing process.

How would it be to let the past be in the past… how would it to be let
go of all the hurting each other and the blaming each other? The past is
gone. Now both sysvinit and Systemd are there. That is just how it is.
So instead of convincing those who use Systemd that it is bad, evil, and
what else not, how about spending time to work on the alternatives like
having sysvinit maintained again *and* supporting runit in Devuan?

How would it look like if we all just accept that some like to use
Systemd and some do not like to use or install it? Everyone for their
own reasons with themselves are neither inherently right or wrong.

As the sysvinit maintenance thing popped up as a discussion in Debian I
see the wonderful opportunity to work together. KatolaZ kindly offered
to help with maintaining sysvinit, Ian Jackson already offered to upload
changes of Debian sysvinit package, there is a debian-init-diversity
mailing list, focusing on discussing this work. And while there are some
people… both in Devuan and Debian who seem to enjoy recreating the past
with all the suffering again, there are also people who just go for:

What can we do now to improve the situation for everyone? What can we do
if we let go of the drama and focus on what is here *now*?

The past is gone. It is over. It is just a memory. It by itself does not
exist.

Now there is the opportunity for a first light form of cooperation
between Debian and Devuan and to learn to co-exist in peace with each
other. To channel all the energy – a huge lot, if you ask me – spent to
fight against each other to get some work done that will benefit both
Devuan and Debian.

What happens if we let go of the drama and get on with life again?

Wonderful times, if you ask me. And nothing, at all, to be worried
about.

I fully get it, the drama has been exciting and interesting. A star
performance so to say. The rebels against the empire or vice versa –
without it even being clear on who played which role. But it never wrote
a single line of code or helped even a tiny bit with maintaining a
package.

So are you ready to just let go of it… and move on with whatever is
really important to you? Are you ready to focus on what you self can do,
instead of insisting to control how other people spend their time?

Thanks for listening.

Best,
--
Martin