FTR: I'm in favor of delaying it for a variety of reasons already
stated as well as personal reasons (I'd love to see Amsterdam in the
spring.)

I'll be home tomorrow (Sunday) and will be more present.

fsr


On 9/7/18, golinux@??? <golinux@???> wrote:
> As always, thank you for your well-reasoned thoughts.
>
> On 2018-09-07 04:01, KatolaZ wrote:
>>
>> 0) We had already decided to have a Devuan conference in several dev
>> meetings.
>>
>
> This is true. But deciding and planning/executing are two different
> things.
>
>
>> 1) We don't lack motivations to hold a Devuan conference:
>>
>> - Meeting the community
>> - Planning ahead
>> - hacking on Devuan stuff
>> - make some "buzz" about Devuan
>>
>
> Yes, that's the idea. But it takes more than wishful thinking to
> accomplish.
>
>>
>> I guess a fair estimate for the number of participants if we hold it
>> in Europe would be 60+.
>>
>> 2) The fact that several people in this list have not been able to
>> actively work for Devuan in the last 6+ months does not mean that
>> Devuan is at a stale point. We had a major release 2.5 months ago
>> (which drained a lot of energy out of a lot of us), a major
>> infrastructure update 1.5 months ago (gitlab), and several other works
>> are undergoing, both on the infra and on the package side.
>>
>
> This is also true. ASCII was in good part due to your gargantuan
> efforts. And Ralph handled most of the gitlab stuff. Meanwhile users
> are jumping the gun to Beowulf and running into issues that have not yet
> been addressed - there's no version of polkit for example. I can't tell
> you how many times I have had to type that not "much has been done yet
> on Beowulf" and that is a bit frustrating.
>
>> 3) Personal motivations to do or not do something are always more than
>> enough, and there is no need to dress them as a "community
>> need". (nothing personal but golinux, you said you were already
>> looking for tickets to come to AMS at the beginning of November, and
>> then that the end of November was not feasible for you for personal
>> reasons: fine. There is no need to say now that we don't have enough
>> time to do things right: we wouldn't have had enough time to be ready
>> at the beginning of November either, but you were ready to come to the
>> Devuan Conf in AMS anyway... :))
>>
>
> Yes, this was a personal blind spot that prevented me from seeing the
> big picture. Please understand that I have not been more than 50 miles
> from my house in about 20 years, am old and somewhat frail. So adjusting
> to the idea of ripping myself from this geolocation and assessing
> whether it was even physically doable was a major hurdle. I could not
> see past that until it was no longer in the equation.
>
>> 4) If we think that it is better to get us some more time to organise
>> things more accurately (and I might agree on this point), then let's
>> postpone the conference by a couple of months, but let's decide the
>> date *now*, and start working towards it.
>>
>
> When we were discussing travel plans at the Monday dyne meet, I asked
> what speakers had been confirmed, topics planned etc. and only the usual
> suspects were mentioned in a vague way. I realized at that moment that
> little thought been put into the conference.
>
>> 5) I would strongly prefer to not overlap the Devuan Conference with
>> other events. If you have to hack4Glarus you won't have time to
>> hack4Devuan, and vice-versa :) (the pun is intentional, and friendly
>> :P)
>>
>
> I agree with this. I also see that more personal contact with
> like-minded hackers who are supporting Devuan would be a good thing for
> those who would want to participate (like Evilham). A public Dev1 event
> happening at the same time is probably not the best idea.
>
>> 99) If somebody thinks that it is useless to participate to a Devuan
>> conference, a shiny and detailed program of all the activities won't
>> change their mind.
>>
>
> Another truth from KatolaZ' keyboard. But a thoughtfully planned and
> promoted event is more likely to entice attendees.
>
> Cheers!
>
> golinux
>
>
>> HND
>>
>> KatolaZ
>>
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