> On Oct 16, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Steve Litt <slitt@???> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 17:18:43 +0200
> "Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" <dr.klepp@???> wrote:
>

>> Am Samstag, 7. Oktober 2017 schrieb Tobias Hunger:
>>> On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Didier Kryn <kryn@???> wrote:  
>>>>    Then maybe I misunderstood the reason for EFI.  

>>>
>>> UEFI is a huge step forward in pretty much all areas and makes
>>> booting both simpler and more powerful.
>
> UEFI is a huge step forward in monopolization of well-funded operating
> system vendors to fend off challenges from smaller vendors. UEFI is a
> huge step forward in guaranteeing the ability of the user to break his
> hardware with a dumb error. UEFI is a big step forward for Microsoft,
> who has the clout to make sure all computer manufacturers can boot
> Windows on their machines. Other OSes, well, not so much. UEFI is a
> huge step forward for systemd, because the giant distros who can afford
> to supply Microsoft endorsed keys all run systemd. This is Redhat's
> final defense against superior, non-systemd OSes. Yes, they might be
> better, but you can't run them, so bend over, grease up, and embrace
> systemd.
>
> Tobias Hunger is a systemd apologist and perpetual troll. Instead of
> contributing to the systemd project, he comes to Devuan discussion
> venues and says "systemd's not so bad.”

Where, exactly, did Tobias mention systemd?

>>>
>>> With UEFI the firmware just loads a efi binary with everything:-)
>>> MUCH simpler.
>
> There's absolutely nothing simpler about the preceding sentence: Hunger
> simply fails to break out a vast tree of subcomponents and dependencies
> of the "efi binary.”

Please enlighten us.

>>> * UEFI allows for more security with secure boot. E.g. my thinkpad
>>> *only* boots things that I have signed with my key.
>
> Does Devuan have a key? If not, I guess that's all we need to know
> about what distro Tobias Hunger REALLY uses. I'm guessing he doesn't
> have the brainpower to actually implement the distro-independent shim,
> which sounds like an utter nightmare.

Yes, it is clear he’s using a MOK to sign things. It’s also clear you don’t understand what that means, and instead take another shot at insulting him.

>>> * UEFI allows for different OSes living next to each other
>>> peacefully, without the constant fight over who writes the MBR and
>>> with that defines the boot loader.
>
> Characterization. "Peacefully?" "Constantly fighting?" The fights only
> occur when changing the boot system. And by the way, if you use MBR
> boot, you can use the old and superior Grub1 or LILO.

Stage 1.5 bootloaders were written to unused parts of the disk. Other OSes and tools commonly wrote their intermediate bootloaders or RAID configuration or whatnot to unused parts of the disk. Often, a second program would write to the same unused part of the disk, overwriting or corrupting the first. Tobias is spot-on here.

>> You forgot to mention that UEFI is the best code in the world written
>> by the the best of the best and therefore absolutely secure.
>
> Nik, that should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer :-)
>
> Tobias Hunger, why don't you go support the project you DO like instead
> of trolling the one you don't?

This is grossly inappropriate. Toabias’ post was entirely technical in nature and accurate. At no point does his denigrate, insult or bully anyone on the list, or advocate the inclusion of packages incompatible with the Devuan mission, such as systemd.

You owe him an apology.

jf
--
John Franklin
franklin@???