On Monday 18 September 2017 at 15:54:16, Arnt Karlsen wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Sep 2017 14:35:24 +0100, Antony wrote:
> > On Monday 18 September 2017 at 14:27:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>
> ..and we still haven't proven it good enough for many of them.
> And that can _only_ happen on Devuan Jessie LTS' own merit.

So, we focus on getting people to use Devuan Jessie - not Wheezy.

> > I don't think there's any point in Devuan attempting to support the
> > outdated packages in Debian Wheezy when we are already offering an
> > escape route to those syadmins who've chosen to stick with Wheezy
> > because they don't want systemd.
>
> ..you missed my "_minimal_." ;o)
> I agree supporting outdated stuff is a waste of time and good
> manpower, it'll only be useful to help people update to Devuan
> Jessie etc.

I don't see the purpose of having a Devuan Wheezy.

After all, Debian Wheezy is systemd-free by default (yes, you can install it
yourself if you want to, but people who've done that aren't looking for
Devuan), so what's the benefit in us advertising a "systemd-free Wheezy" to the
world?

Anyone doing a review of it would say "this is Debian with some optional
packages taken out".

> ..according to http://popcon.debian.org/ 30809 had popularity-contest
> 1.56 (wheezy) installed, about 11000 more have even older versions,
> and according to our own http://popcon.devuan.org/ and to
> http://popcon.debian.org/ we still don't match the 2693 who might
> still have 1.46 (lenny) installed.
>
> ..plenty good manpower out there we could use here. ;o)

What do you expect that "manpower" to do?

Not everyone running Debian as a sysadmin (or end user) is going to contribute
to the Devuan project.

> > 2. Those who don't want to upgrade something that's still working.
> >
> > Devuan Jessie is the solution for group 1, and there is no solution
> > for group 2 because they're happy with what they've already got.
>
> ..once we have proven e.g. Devuan Jessie LTS etc on their own
> merits, they might get curious and wanna try our stuff and wind
> up helping out. Just give it time. ;o)

1. Anyone who's running Debian Squeeze or earlier isn't failing to upgrade
because of systemd, therefore Devuan isn't an argument in their case.

2. Anyone running Debian Wheezy is either systemd-free, in which case Devuan
Wheezy would be identical, or else they've installed systemd themselves, which
presumably means they want to run it, and therefore aren't interested in
Devuan.

3. Anyone running Debian Wheezy who wants to upgrade to Jessie can upgrade to
Devuan Jessie to avoid systemd. If there are problems with that upgrade
process, *that*'s what we need help with debugging and fixing.

4. Anyone running Debian Jessie who wants to get away from systemd can also
upgrade to Devuan Jessie. Again, if there are problems with that upgrade,
that's where we need help, not with taking Debian Wheezy, stripping out the
optional systemd bits, and relabelling it as Devuan.


Antony.

--
She did not swoon, but she did get a look on her face that said 'This
conversation is over', which Jack took as a sign he was going in the right
direction.

- Neal Stephenson, Quicksilver

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