On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 at 14:22:34 +0200
Arnt Karlsen <arnt@???> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:34:49 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message
> <b0d97abd-ebeb-5eab-78c2-db089730d043@???>:
>
>> On 22/08/2017 at 13:36, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Aug 2017 03:38:50 +0200, Adam wrote in message
>>> <20170822013850.ute5cf7ycrlvc4rq@???>:
>>>
>>>> There are cases when the old way had its merit -- but here, we
>>>> have an equivalent of a car that needs to be started with a
>>>> hand-crank.
>>>
>>> ..you may have missed "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley and George
>>> Orwell's "1984", or at the very least, the main point of these 2
>>> books and your own nation's history, in these Trumpian times.
>>>
>>> ..an hand-crank car keeps you in control of what's going on around
>>> you, if you pay attention.
>>
>> Why do you think an electric motor cannot do the same?
>
> ..straw man, an electric motor cannot do the same without
> AI taking control away from you.

Please let me know what AI did the Wolkswagen Beetle have?

>>> Your new shiny AI car may decide to kill you to
>>> save e.g. "a more worthy person" from something really, really bad,
>>> e.g. Trumpian embarrasment, e.g. because you pay attention to
>>> what's going on around you. ;oD
>>
>> First off, an electric engine starter does not have to have any AI
>> built-in. The XX century auto industry proved it.
>
> ..and the XXI'st is now disproving it.

Present day technology cannot change the past. Car electric starters did
not have any AI, they relied completely on the human who turned the key to
work.

>>   Secondly, AI is not inherently a user alien technology, no more that
>> computers are per se a tools against the users.  It all depends on
>> who is in charge.    

>
> ..precisely my point.

Do you intend to live without computers?
Your choice.

>> As there is software that puts the user in charge (Free/OS software)
>> and software that deprives the user of any freedom (proprietary
>> software), so there is AI that just serves users and AI that controls
>> them.
>
> ..e.g. systemd is capable of "getting it done" both ways. ;o)

My home PCs do not have it.

>> If this could not be, then your only option would be forsaking
>> IT altogether.
>
> ..maybe. Eventually, that too will fail, we mere mortals risk
> getting targeted "as Islamists" for _not_ carrying cell phones:
> https://theintercept.com/2014/02/10/the-nsas-secret-role/
> https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/firing-blind/
> https://theintercept.com/2017/08/21/trump-may-not-survive-his-term-but-the-assassination-complex-will/

I did not read anywhere people without cellphones are/will be targeted as
islamists, and I fail to understand how you could think those articles and
the facts they relate have anything to do with AI and car starters.


Alessandro