On Fri, 11 Aug 2017, Daniel Reurich wrote:

> Ok, this is getting way out of control and it's turning into huge
> energy vacuum. I thought working on Ascii was our priority now??
> Let's not get so distracted by this and get peoples backs up.

no, the priorities have been agreed by all developers participating in
meetings and are being processed. the task I mention is a blocker to
another priority, that of modernizing the CI to be able to:

1) activate mirrors as offered by various institutions (see notes)

2) switch to amprolla3 in production as its throughly tested and its
rewrite has been reviewed already by three programmers

3) manage more transparently the needs of inclusion of developers
adopting package updates

4) fix a current bug in the present CI which is not yet disclosed for
our own security

5) I may be forgetting other blockers this task has, but referring to
previous meeting notes should be easy

> My understanding is that the ci system was mostly where I and nextime
> lead by virtue of the fact nextime built and hosts it and I'm the most
> experienced with it and have a similar understanding of how it works to
> nextime.

this is a false assumption. As of today there are more people who are
very experienced with it, to the point they have rewritten the whole
thing, drafted the first Devuan Improvement Proposal with extensive
documentation on its aims and course of action, a sort of
documentation was not even present before.

> That doesn't preclude others being able to contribute enhancements
> or make suggestions, but forcing a solution like scorsh on us isn't
> a wise move. And in any case, talking to me and nextime about the
> issues, before creating a solution such as scorsh might have avoided
> this standoff.

noone is forcing anything, the process is:

1- there is a problem
2- someone works hard on a valid solution
3- there are no alternatives to the solution

saying at this point that one "has to talk to you or nextime" who
namely have no time, is blocking nonsense.

> Jaromil your not helping. Stop throwing your weight around and putting
> pressure on nextime. It won't solve things, just adds to his stress

no, I know well enough Nextime.

His first and only priority is Devuan's well being.

We are also lucky for that, since he would never-ever pull any plug on
anything Devuan related, not even if one of us builds an hate-page for
him. He is not a kid at all.

But as Katolaz points and yourself, there is a single point of failure
plus a nonsensical blocking attitude now which we need to deal in a
way or another if it persist, for the well being of the Devuan
project, which is a collective project.



> We are not dealing with a broken CI system here, it still works fine for
> Devuan.

no, it is broken.

> KatolaZ, I'm sorry, but I still fundamentally disagree with scorsh, and
> see it as a systemd like exploit being foisted on our CI system. It's
> bad engineering in this context.

this needs to be a specific comment on the DIP, with plenty of detail
and the opportunity of Katolaz to reply in detail and/or adjust
things.


> I strongly object to scorsh having it's own
> authentication/permissions system built in. We already have a
> sufficient system for that in gitlab and which do not belong in a
> tool that should be a thin layer between gitlab and the ci system.
> And if we were to replace gitlab, we should move to a separate tool
> for providing federated authentication and permissions.

I strongly disagree with this analysis. We need to narrow down our
dependencies to git. I won't explore this at lenght since we've done
it already in meetings and since this e-mail is an emotional
rabbit-hole.

> I'll start:

why should we wait you to do it?

I find the quality of the work done by other developers here very
high, perhaps higher than anything else that has been produced so far.

you are imposing a dependency on your actions to all of us without
even giving a fair consideration to what has been done.

I think that unless you let go with this attitude, we'll have to
circumvent it. I wonder then if your choice will be to "pull the plug"?

thruly yours

ciao

-- 
~.,_   Denis Roio aka Jaromil    http://Dyne.org think &do tank
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